Jim Chalmers

And I think when the president of the European Commission was in town the other day, she made this point, I think, really quite starkly.

which is the energy transformation is a national security issue.

Of course, we spend a lot of time making sure that there's more diesel in the system, petrol, diesel and jet fuel to make sure that it's getting to where it needs to go.

But the longer term energy transformation is really important in this regard as well.

It will help us when we have shocks like these.

Well, I mean, I understand that there are different views about how fast we're moving and how ambitious we are on this, but I think our agenda on

cleaner and cheaper energy and what that means for climate change is an ambitious agenda.

The targets we released last year, all of the work that we're doing,

when it comes to getting our emissions down, plenty ambitious.

And this progress is hard fought and hard won.

There's a lot of people who would like us to do much less on energy and climate change.

There are people who would like us to do much more, but this government's really ambitious about it.

The work of Chris Bowen, supported by myself and others, is really important all of the time, but I think especially important

when we get reminded by oil shocks like the one that we're going through right now.

Well, I think the point I'm trying to make to you, Alan, is it makes our agenda more important, our existing agenda on the energy transformation.

Well, we are in the sense that we're taking some decisive, immediate action to try and alleviate some of these pressures.

But our bigger, longer-term agenda is the right one.

It's an agenda that says...

We have to get our emissions down.

We need cleaner and cheaper, renewable, reliable energy in the system, whether it's the capacity investment scheme, the safeguard mechanism.