Jim Chalmers

That's higher than the 20-year average.

and not bad in the context of the last couple of decades.

Market sector productivity has gone up five quarters in a row now, and it was 1.5% in the most recent data.

So that's some green shoots, hopefully, when it comes to productivity, but much more work to do, and it won't be tweaking or fiddling or however you described it, Alan, and also in that column that you wrote a few months ago, which obviously I read and reread.

We know that there's more work to do, but we're making some progress, I believe.

Well, this is really the key thing that we talk about.

I had a couple of hours with him not that long ago, maybe two or three weeks ago, talking about this exactly.

But I think the characterisation of my colleagues is a bit unfair.

I feel like one of the things I'm very fortunate to have is to be surrounded by ambitious colleagues, and the Prime Minister certainly has been

um you know a very very willing partner when it comes to you know some of the work that we're doing on tax and productivity and and making the budget more sustainable as well so i do read that from time to time and i don't think it really quite

captures our relationship.

I think I'm really fortunate to have a Prime Minister who works collegiately on some of these issues and the level of ambition is broadly shared.

Now, I think inevitably, you know, when you're the Treasurer, probably doesn't just describe me, certainly describes Paul, there is an element of impatience, I think, in Treasurers, which, you know, to be fair, I probably share, you always want to do as much as you can

while you're in these roles, recognising that this is a very time-limited opportunity and so you want to do as much good as you can.

The onus is on Treasurers to explain why change is necessary, why reform is necessary.

And that's an important part of the job that I embrace, but the colleagues are in the cart for the sorts of reforms that we're contemplating for May.

Well, first of all, I think it's possible to acknowledge the structural pressures on the budget, the structural position of the budget.

And that there's much, much more work to do to make the budget more sustainable.

It's possible to acknowledge that and also recognise that we've come a long way in the last few years.

I mean, we've actually seen the biggest nominal improvement in the budget in the history of the country.