Joe Lonsdale

Exactly. I think having both, and this is a dialectic, I'm obsessed with these dialectics, but there's like truth for why both of those extremes are important and you need to merge them and have them there. And by the way, when you merge them properly, it's really fun because you can get... different debates about what's going on in the innovation world at a startup.

Exactly. I think having both, and this is a dialectic, I'm obsessed with these dialectics, but there's like truth for why both of those extremes are important and you need to merge them and have them there. And by the way, when you merge them properly, it's really fun because you can get... different debates about what's going on in the innovation world at a startup.

And you could argue about that from a philosophical perspective and you can apply some of the old, you know, debates from a long time ago and old wisdom from a long time ago. Like imagine applying Xenophon, you know, who was, this is a guy who was writing in 300 BC and, and he wrote about Cyrus the Great and his values and his principles and why he became so successful.

And you could argue about that from a philosophical perspective and you can apply some of the old, you know, debates from a long time ago and old wisdom from a long time ago. Like imagine applying Xenophon, you know, who was, this is a guy who was writing in 300 BC and, and he wrote about Cyrus the Great and his values and his principles and why he became so successful.

And you could argue about that from a philosophical perspective and you can apply some of the old, you know, debates from a long time ago and old wisdom from a long time ago. Like imagine applying Xenophon, you know, who was, this is a guy who was writing in 300 BC and, and he wrote about Cyrus the Great and his values and his principles and why he became so successful.

And all the young European princes for like 1500 years were trained, were read Xenophon and read about Cyrus to train, like, here's the values of who you should be to be a great prince and a great leader. and what that meant and be able to have that and then talk about that in the context of a startup leader we're arguing about and the principles. It's fun. You can mix these things together.

And all the young European princes for like 1500 years were trained, were read Xenophon and read about Cyrus to train, like, here's the values of who you should be to be a great prince and a great leader. and what that meant and be able to have that and then talk about that in the context of a startup leader we're arguing about and the principles. It's fun. You can mix these things together.

And all the young European princes for like 1500 years were trained, were read Xenophon and read about Cyrus to train, like, here's the values of who you should be to be a great prince and a great leader. and what that meant and be able to have that and then talk about that in the context of a startup leader we're arguing about and the principles. It's fun. You can mix these things together.

You know, just in general, a lot of things are not simple truths that are either on one side or the other. Most of the time in the world when there's debates, there's actually deep truth on both sides.

You know, just in general, a lot of things are not simple truths that are either on one side or the other. Most of the time in the world when there's debates, there's actually deep truth on both sides.

You know, just in general, a lot of things are not simple truths that are either on one side or the other. Most of the time in the world when there's debates, there's actually deep truth on both sides.

So if you want to apply it to the innovation world, I always love the dialectic in the product organization where on one hand you have like Steve Jobs or you have like the guy who ran Sodi in the 80s. Steve Jobs basically said, I don't care what the consumers tell me they want. I'm going to figure out what's best, and I'm going to show them a breakthrough, and then they're going to love it, right?

So if you want to apply it to the innovation world, I always love the dialectic in the product organization where on one hand you have like Steve Jobs or you have like the guy who ran Sodi in the 80s. Steve Jobs basically said, I don't care what the consumers tell me they want. I'm going to figure out what's best, and I'm going to show them a breakthrough, and then they're going to love it, right?

So if you want to apply it to the innovation world, I always love the dialectic in the product organization where on one hand you have like Steve Jobs or you have like the guy who ran Sodi in the 80s. Steve Jobs basically said, I don't care what the consumers tell me they want. I'm going to figure out what's best, and I'm going to show them a breakthrough, and then they're going to love it, right?

And there's some really deep wisdom in that. It's not what they're asking for, right? They didn't know what to ask for a car, right? They would have asked for something with horses. So what's the breakthrough we're going to give them? But then there's another thing that's actually really true. Even at Apple...

And there's some really deep wisdom in that. It's not what they're asking for, right? They didn't know what to ask for a car, right? They would have asked for something with horses. So what's the breakthrough we're going to give them? But then there's another thing that's actually really true. Even at Apple...

And there's some really deep wisdom in that. It's not what they're asking for, right? They didn't know what to ask for a car, right? They would have asked for something with horses. So what's the breakthrough we're going to give them? But then there's another thing that's actually really true. Even at Apple...

which is that once you have a product, there's like a hundred things that consumers want that bug them, especially in enterprise. There's like ways they're not able to use it for some reasons. They have like product needs.

which is that once you have a product, there's like a hundred things that consumers want that bug them, especially in enterprise. There's like ways they're not able to use it for some reasons. They have like product needs.

which is that once you have a product, there's like a hundred things that consumers want that bug them, especially in enterprise. There's like ways they're not able to use it for some reasons. They have like product needs.