Joe Weisenthal

And one of them was the regulatory push of loans off banks.

Another one was ZERP.

But another one was the emergence of these predictable payment streams called software as a service subscriptions.

This is the area in which you could really have zeros.

A natural gas turbine is going to be worth something at the end.

An obsolete software company is not going to be worth anything if the business has been destroyed thanks to AI.

But what was the moment in which the credit guys suddenly realized that essentially here is this business that we used to never think of, high tech.

It used to be when I was a kid, tech and debt didn't go together.

What was the moment that the credit guys sort of realized that these are financeable assets, so to speak, that could come into the debt world?

Yeah.

So much.

Nice being with you.

That was great.

Thank you so much.

Sure.

Totally.

And you can see like how there's like this path dependency.

And again, that doesn't mean it has to be like systemic, but you can see how there's this path dependency where you mentioned you get the headlines about withdrawals.

There are more withdrawals.

These sponsors have to sell good assets.