John Eligon

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. For decades, white South Africans ruled with an iron fist, overseeing the country's cruel system of racial oppression. So why is President Trump now welcoming them to the U.S. as victims? Today, John Eligo on how the MAGA movement became obsessed with AfriConners. It's Monday, May 19th. John, welcome back to The Daily.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. For decades, white South Africans ruled with an iron fist, overseeing the country's cruel system of racial oppression. So why is President Trump now welcoming them to the U.S. as victims? Today, John Eligo on how the MAGA movement became obsessed with AfriConners. It's Monday, May 19th. John, welcome back to The Daily.

Hi, good to be here. I don't know if you remember this, but the last time we spoke was four years ago, almost to the month, because in the middle of the interview, my wife began to give birth to our son.

Hi, good to be here. I don't know if you remember this, but the last time we spoke was four years ago, almost to the month, because in the middle of the interview, my wife began to give birth to our son.

Oh, wow.

Oh, wow.

She went into labor, and we did not finish the conversation.

She went into labor, and we did not finish the conversation.

Well, hopefully we don't have that problem again this time.

Well, hopefully we don't have that problem again this time.

No, no, no chance. So, on to the topic at hand. John, since taking office, the Trump administration has really systematically shut down the programs that designate and bring refugees into the United States from around the world. And then a few days ago, the White House made a pretty big exception to that. But I want you to just start with the shutting down process for just a moment.

No, no, no chance. So, on to the topic at hand. John, since taking office, the Trump administration has really systematically shut down the programs that designate and bring refugees into the United States from around the world. And then a few days ago, the White House made a pretty big exception to that. But I want you to just start with the shutting down process for just a moment.

Yeah, so essentially when Trump came into office, we know he had this flurry of executive orders that he signed. And among those executive orders was an order that essentially suspended the refugee program. So this is essentially the program where you have... People who are in war-torn places like Sudan, where we've been driven from Sudan.

Yeah, so essentially when Trump came into office, we know he had this flurry of executive orders that he signed. And among those executive orders was an order that essentially suspended the refugee program. So this is essentially the program where you have... People who are in war-torn places like Sudan, where we've been driven from Sudan.

People in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where there's an ongoing war for decades now. Tens of thousands of Afghans who had been approved, they had been screened, and they'd been ready to come over to the U.S. to be resettled. But by suspending the program, you essentially stop all that.

People in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where there's an ongoing war for decades now. Tens of thousands of Afghans who had been approved, they had been screened, and they'd been ready to come over to the U.S. to be resettled. But by suspending the program, you essentially stop all that.

And can you remind us what President Trump's rationale was for doing that?

And can you remind us what President Trump's rationale was for doing that?

Yeah. His broad rationale is that, hey, this is something that threatens the interests of the United States. So they've talked about how bringing in refugees who are not properly vetted for security reasons could come in and harm the country.

Yeah. His broad rationale is that, hey, this is something that threatens the interests of the United States. So they've talked about how bringing in refugees who are not properly vetted for security reasons could come in and harm the country.