John Ganz

He's a bigger gangster in a certain way.

I don't know that he has...

I think they're both – it's both and.

It's not either or.

I think that basically –

Yes.

The fragmentation of media has opened up the doors for a lot of things that would not have made it into the previous ecosystem of media.

And that is a boon to all kinds of crackpots and charlatans and politics that were once fringe.

There's no doubt about it.

But...

The appeal of these politicians only makes sense if you consider the trajectory of the society and the fact that you have large members of the middle and lower middle classes feeling increasingly squeezed and dispossessed and feeling unrepresented by their politicians who they feel are...

intrinsically corrupt.

And I don't think that Trump comes along without the 2008 crash and the feeling that there's something rigged about the system, as he likes to put it.

So I don't think you can really disentangle them.

Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate.

I do think that the new right that coalesced around Reagan, and Reagan was not the first choice for a lot of those guys.

They wanted somebody crazier like John Connolly.

Reagan was kind of too moderate for some people in that version of the new right.

And then they kind of grew to love him and realized he was sort of one of them.

But