John Kiriakou

When their obituaries are written, the obituaries are going to say that they were war criminals.

You know what?

I did not struggle with that.

I'm glad that you brought it up because I think this is a very important point.

I did not have that internal struggle because it has been proven time and time again after years and years of research that torture simply doesn't work.

Now, there was a real reason why we were torturing, and that was revenge.

I understand that.

I disagree with it, but I understand.

But don't torture and then pretend that you're doing it because there's a ticking time bomb somewhere and you're trying to prevent the next attack.

You're not trying to prevent the next attack.

9-11 was the greatest intelligence failure in American history, far worse than the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941.

And it was because the CIA was asleep at the switch.

The deaths of 3,000 Americans in one day was on us because we didn't do our jobs.

So I get that these guys wanted revenge.

That doesn't make it right.

But then to pretend that you have to do these torture techniques because, well, the next attack could be worse and we need to disrupt the next attack.

Come on.

We're not stupid.

And so I never bought it.

Never, never bought it.