John Kiriakou

What we could have learned.

I think that is that's the whole story right there in a nutshell.

When I was there, I remember being shocked by some of the old timers who had been there for as long as 40 or 42 years.

There was one in particular.

He was the national intelligence officer for warning.

So he was the one that was supposed to say, you know, I'm worried about what Libya is going to look like 10 years from now.

And then somebody writes a paper about it.

He had been there for 42 years.

He had to get a waiver from the director because he had aged out.

Well, these guys make no secret of their belief that they can outweigh pretty much any president.

Presidents come and go.

And these guys are there forever.

And so if the president wants them to do something that they don't want to do, they just slow roll it.

Just wait until he leaves.

And that's the end of it.

You know, that's why I say I've said this in interviews a lot.

There is a deep state.

You don't have to call it the deep state if you don't want to.

You can call it the state.

You can call it the federal bureaucracy.