John Lisle

And some of the reactions it talked about was it made them just uncontrollably start laughing, and it put them in a good mood.

And some of the reactions were, oh, yeah, I mean, they were just getting these people high, and they were reacting to that.

No, no.

It did actually make them talk more, though, because they actually recorded these interviews and they would count the number of words per minute that these people spoke.

And it turns out after they smoked this, they would talk about like 40% more words per minute.

But it's not that this guaranteed the truth.

Yeah.

So one – well, I should mention that MKUltra was broken into 149 subprojects.

Whoa.

So MKUltra was the umbrella term.

And within MKUltra, there are 149 subprojects that were –

kind of farmed out to, in many cases, independent researchers who might be working at a hospital or a prison or a university or something like that.

One of the main people who is running these studies is a guy named Harris Isbell at the Lexington Narcotic Farm.

This is where drug addicts could go to get treatment for their addiction.

Prisoners could go there as well.

And whenever Sidney Gottlieb found a drug that he was interested in, he would basically just give it to Harris Isbell, who could try it out on these prisoners to see how they reacted.

And then Isbell would write reports back to Gottlieb.

So he tried psilocybin when that came out, LSD, but also stuff like, I mean, heroin.

The CIA was particularly interested in heroin because if you can induce an addiction in a captured agent, let's say, then you can use that as leverage in interrogation, the withdrawal symptoms.

So you get them addicted to heroin and then use the withdrawal symptoms saying, well, if you tell us about this, maybe I'll give you a little.