John Lisle

And she does say a little bit about what she thinks were in the files.

She says it was some of his personal papers and there was secret and secret sensitive files in there.

We don't really have a great idea about what it could be.

Although I do think a lot of the files were –

In the depositions that I found, George White or Sidney Gottlieb says that George White would write to him personal updates about the experiments that he was doing in these brothels, basically.

And so I'm assuming that a lot of those files consisted of George White's personal reports on what was going on.

A decent amount in the sense that just as it did for kind of the American public in general in the 1970s when this was coming out, it really led people to cast a skeptical eye toward the government and thinking,

It's just assumed that the government is supposed to be the protector of civil liberties.

But after Watergate, after MKUltra, after the Vietnam War, it starts to seem as if the government is infringing on those civil liberties, you know, instead of being the protector of it.

In many cases, it's infringing on them.

Not that it doesn't protect civil liberties, but one of the main things that I came away after writing this book is the problem of oversight.

You know, I think the constitutional system of government that we have is ingenious, the fact that we have checks and balances and the separation of powers.

However, you have to enable the separate –

Yeah.

I have a chapter about this, but, you know, sometimes CIA personnel would try to inform members of Congress of what they were doing.

I have one specific quote where a CIA guy walks up to a sitting senator and says, hey, let me tell you about what we're doing in Chile or whatever it is.

And then he says, no, I don't want to hear it.

Don't tell me.

Just do what you're going to do.

He doesn't even want to know.