John Lisle

So there was no need for the bat bomb.

But if people are interested in that kind of story and how crazy that can get, that's in these books too.

Do you know about the proposal for the gay bomb?

That sounds familiar, about releasing some kind of chemical that distracts people.

They'll be so infatuated with each other, these soldiers, that we can go, yeah.

Huh, interesting.

Well, you know, that's actually one of the big inspirations for MKUltra.

Not the gay bomb, but the idea that we could use chemicals to defeat an enemy army.

So Sidney Gottlieb, before he was...

really running MKUltra experiments, he had attended a few conferences where some people would talk, this guy named Luther Green, who was part of the army.

And Luther Green was in charge of like developing and experimenting with nerve agents, you know, that could incapacitate.

These are like some of the most potent agents that have ever been created.

A fraction of an ounce applied to your skin can be lethal.

So he wanted to find a substance, Green did, that could mimic the effects of a nerve agent, like incapacitate someone without actually killing them.

His idea was that if we could get this substance and we can drop it over enemy territory, it could incapacitate these soldiers just through chemical warfare, but we wouldn't actually have to kill them.

They would be incapacitated for a certain amount of time.

And then we could send the Marines in and they could gather up all these people and we can conquer this territory.

We can defeat this enemy army without actually having to kill anyone or for any of our people to be killed.

So Stanley Lovell was really interested in this concept, you know,

War without death was what they were talking about.