John Mearsheimer

It was whenever anybody talked about American grand strategy towards the Soviet Union, it was containment, containment, containment.

We now know from the historical record that the United States was not only pursuing containment, it was pursuing rollback.

We were trying to roll back Soviet power.

To put it bluntly, we were trying to wreck the Soviet Union.

And I would not be surprised moving forward with regard to China if the United States pursues a serious rollback policy.

Because they may be a threat to us.

Yeah.

Well, I mean... Look, you don't respect the power of other nations.

You fear the power of other nations.

Well, yes and no.

Look, your point is you want to empathize.

You want to be able to put yourself in the shoes of the other side.

I agree 100% with that.

It's very important if you're a first-class strategist to be able to do that.

But at the same time, there is this competition for power taking place.

And what you want to do is maximize how much power you have relative to the other side.

And the other side wants to maximize how much power it has relative to you.

So you have this competition for power, right?

that's taking place all the time.

And that's taking place at the same time you want to have empathy or you want to be able to put yourself in the shoes of the other side.