John Mearsheimer

And then there are a large number of Jews.

The Jews are obviously the most important of those two groups in the Israel lobby.

But, you know, one of the arguments that we made in the book is,

is that you should not call it the Jewish lobby because it's not populated just by Jews.

And Christian Zionists are an important part of that lobby.

But furthermore, there are a good number of Jews who are opposed to the lobby and the policies that the lobby purveys.

And they're

a number of Jews who are prominent anti-Zionists, right?

And they're obviously not in the lobby.

Or if you take a group like Jewish Voice for Peace, right?

Jewish Voice for Peace is not in the lobby.

So it's wrong to call it a Jewish lobby.

But with regard to

the American Jews who were in that lobby, I think that really this is all about nationalism.

It's not so much religion.

Many of those Jews who are influential in the lobby are not religious in any meaningful sense of that term, but they self-identify as Jewish in the sense that they feel they're part of a Jewish nation.

And that in addition to being an American, right, they are part of this tribe, this nation called Jews, and that they have a responsibility to push the United States in ways that support the Jewish state.

So I think that's what drives most, if not almost, all the Jews.

This is not to say there's not a religious dimension for some of them, but I think that the main connection is much more tribal in nature.

Look, you can define anti-Semitism