John Morgan

No, what I'm asking, I mean, I mean. The old ritual, perhaps I should say. Yeah, it's a new. It's a new ritual. There's a new ritual. That's an astonishing thing to me. Like if I wanted to, hey, you know what I've done? I've set up a new ritual. That's just a powerful thing.

No, what I'm asking, I mean, I mean. The old ritual, perhaps I should say. Yeah, it's a new. It's a new ritual. There's a new ritual. That's an astonishing thing to me. Like if I wanted to, hey, you know what I've done? I've set up a new ritual. That's just a powerful thing.

But it is new and it's a baptism for the forgiveness of sins. That's right. Like I don't see that anywhere else. Can I ask this question? For Christians, what does that mean to you to have somebody proposing a ritual that's They're supposed to give their forgiveness of sins before Jesus has even appeared.

But it is new and it's a baptism for the forgiveness of sins. That's right. Like I don't see that anywhere else. Can I ask this question? For Christians, what does that mean to you to have somebody proposing a ritual that's They're supposed to give their forgiveness of sins before Jesus has even appeared.

I wasn't talking about the baptism by John of Jesus, I think, and even the ritual baptism. I appreciate what you're saying about its psycho-spiritual capacities for transformation. I'm trying to, like, this seems to be an... I'm not denying the continuity, but there's an innovation here. And then I'm asking a question looking sort of from the outside. This seems problematic.

I wasn't talking about the baptism by John of Jesus, I think, and even the ritual baptism. I appreciate what you're saying about its psycho-spiritual capacities for transformation. I'm trying to, like, this seems to be an... I'm not denying the continuity, but there's an innovation here. And then I'm asking a question looking sort of from the outside. This seems problematic.

How is this the forgiveness of sins?

How is this the forgiveness of sins?

Well, I just wanted to pick up on what Dennis said though. I mean, I'm a little bit hesitant of going from the title of Son of God immediately because Son of God is used of other figures, even figures like the kings in the Old Testament. And secondly, if this story is so central, why is it absent from Mark and why does Paul never talk about it? That's problematic.

Well, I just wanted to pick up on what Dennis said though. I mean, I'm a little bit hesitant of going from the title of Son of God immediately because Son of God is used of other figures, even figures like the kings in the Old Testament. And secondly, if this story is so central, why is it absent from Mark and why does Paul never talk about it? That's problematic.

I mean, if it's such a central thing that you're claiming it is, Mark doesn't even consider it, and Paul never refers to it.

I mean, if it's such a central thing that you're claiming it is, Mark doesn't even consider it, and Paul never refers to it.

I don't know if I agree with that. I mean, he has brothers and sisters, and there's no indication that they're considered half-brothers or half-sisters.

I don't know if I agree with that. I mean, he has brothers and sisters, and there's no indication that they're considered half-brothers or half-sisters.

And I don't think Augustus is just tyrannical. Augustus is the ending of a civilization-wide civil war. And I think there's an attempt to indicate something like a kairos happening here. That's interesting. Right? You've got... I'm not denying the tyranny of the Roman emperor, but... You know, Augustus, many historians consider him maybe the greatest emperor, right?

And I don't think Augustus is just tyrannical. Augustus is the ending of a civilization-wide civil war. And I think there's an attempt to indicate something like a kairos happening here. That's interesting. Right? You've got... I'm not denying the tyranny of the Roman emperor, but... You know, Augustus, many historians consider him maybe the greatest emperor, right?

There's also, I mean, there's extra biblical reference. They're magi. They're plausibly from, they're Zoroastrians. And so, and there's been an ongoing relationship between Israel and Persia. And Persia figures very, I mean, I believe I read somewhere that Cyrus was actually the first, one of the first people called Messiah in the Old Testament and King of Kings.

There's also, I mean, there's extra biblical reference. They're magi. They're plausibly from, they're Zoroastrians. And so, and there's been an ongoing relationship between Israel and Persia. And Persia figures very, I mean, I believe I read somewhere that Cyrus was actually the first, one of the first people called Messiah in the Old Testament and King of Kings.

And so there's also that relationship to, and, you know, and Zoroastrianism is, you know, is the idea that, that the future has an openness to it and we are a moral battleground in which that openness can be decided. And I think by having the Magi there, there is a recognition of that.

And so there's also that relationship to, and, you know, and Zoroastrianism is, you know, is the idea that, that the future has an openness to it and we are a moral battleground in which that openness can be decided. And I think by having the Magi there, there is a recognition of that.