John R. Miles

And he was doing work at the time at Sam Quinton.

And he was telling me that at a place where you would think

You would experience the least amount of awe.

Some of these inmates experienced it more than others because he was dealing with a lot of people who were on death row.

And when they had the opportunity to even get a small bit of time outside, they appreciated the moral beauty that they were experiencing so much more because it was...

such a limited thing for them.

But also he saw how much so many of them felt forgiveness for what they had done.

So I'm glad you brought him up because I love his work.

That really made me think of a few things.

One is that our perception is something that we don't think about enough.

And oftentimes we look at it as either or, so black or white, and we don't lean into enough of both and type of thinking is something that registered when you were saying that.

And I think another thing that really keyed me in on what you were saying is a number of years ago, I had a life or death type of situation.

And I'm going to tie this into your new book, which, and that was, I was whitewater rafting.

I was on the front of

the raft and we hit this really hard rapid and I got thrown from the raft that we were on and got trapped underneath the raft.

And when I was down there, I was originally in this panic mode until I really started focusing on my breathing and what I needed to do to get out of the situation.

And in your new book, wise effort, subtitled how to focus your genius energy on what matters most.

Your forward has an eerily similar situation with a mutual friend of ours, Rick Hansen, who also, a little bit younger than me, had a similar death-defying moment.

But I think that moment really sets up the core essence of your book.

And I was hoping you might be able to talk about, Rick, that story and maybe introduce the book with it.