John R. Miles

And I'm not sure if that student center was there that has all their athletics in it.

But oh my word, is that a beautiful view.

You're looking out from the basketball courts and all in the background is mountains.

It's absolutely gorgeous.

I'm so glad you brought up Dacher.

I have not mentioned his name in a while.

I love Dacher's work.

And I remember we were having this conversation about awe and he kind of terms that the times we see it the most are when we experience moral beauty.

And one thing that he told me really still sticks with me.

And he was doing work at the time at Sam Quinton.

And he was telling me that at a place where you would think

You would experience the least amount of awe.

Some of these inmates experienced it more than others because he was dealing with a lot of people who were on death row.

And when they had the opportunity to even get a small bit of time outside, they appreciated the moral beauty that they were experiencing so much more because it was...

such a limited thing for them.

But also he saw how much so many of them felt forgiveness for what they had done.

So I'm glad you brought him up because I love his work.

That really made me think of a few things.

One is that our perception is something that we don't think about enough.

And oftentimes we look at it as either or, so black or white, and we don't lean into enough of both and type of thinking is something that registered when you were saying that.