John R. Miles

And it's all about the art of small changes and how they create a meaningful life.

And you and I are both huge fans of behavior science.

And I remember I was interviewing, I'm not sure if you've ever had her on your show, Michelle Seeger from University of Michigan.

She gets so excited when she talks about her work.

And I remember she was talking about micro choices.

John, if you don't remember, if you don't,

Mark Doyal- Remember anything else remember micro choices and this whole concept of micro choices and your concept that a little by little a little becomes a lot are very tied to each other.

Mark Doyal- Why do you believe that it's these little things like you both bring up that really drive how change works.

So why do you think it is that so many people re reject this as an approach?

Because to me, it, it makes a whole lot of sense.

If you think about.

your own life and for those who are listening and you wanna make a change, when we try to go big bang, like 95% of the time, the big bang collapses after a period of time, which is exactly why New Year's resolutions fail for so many people.

But we think that doing these little things is gonna be so difficult to maintain the exact opposite.

Why do you think there's such a big gap?

I remember interviewing Robin Sharma and we talked about that middle phase a lot in the interview.

And it's something that I know for myself throughout many arcs of my life, I have stumbled because I think that's exactly where our intrinsic motivation tends to fail when we start hitting setbacks and things like that.

What have you found?

enables you when you hit moments like that to be able to persevere and push forward?

For me, meditation has always been difficult when I'm in a stationary position.

I find that I need to do something that's fluid.