John R. Miles

And does this life actually feel like mine?

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Now, let's return to the conversation with Arthur Brooks.

Now, you're absolutely right.

And as you were talking, it made me think of Frankl because when he describes how do you find meaning, he gives three different areas that you can do it through work.

You can do it through love and the relationships that you cherish.

It could be taking care of a sick child.

that you have.

It could be caring for a loved one like a parent as they age.

And then he says suffering.

But I also believe there could be a fourth, which is something you go into in the book.

Dacher Keltner was the first time I heard this, which is moral beauty.

Do you think that fourth is a way that you can find meaning in life?

I think Frankl, when he was talking about suffering, he always referred to it as a suffering you can't avoid.

Meaning if you're in a point of suffering and you can find a way out of it, then do so.