John Zito

with less binary outcomes and just broader TAMs.

And I'm like, but I didn't put it all together until I was like, I don't know what the theme is of that other than like everyone's trying to go bigger market and broader market.

Issuers, we've made some progress.

I think we did a deal for InBev in 2020.

And I think I got 10 calls, people telling John, great, it's COVID.

You'll never do a deal for an S&P 500 company again.

Set the stage for that.

Why was that?

Why does that represent such a change from what the history was prior?

Investment grade companies really never accessed the private credit in that way.

If you were an investment grade company, you accessed capital through the bank channel.

It was a very narrow view of the world.

I got to build a, I need to build a plant or I'm going to go to a bank.

I'm going to raise bonds or I'm going to raise equity.

It was very simple.

Like asset allocation was like, okay, I'm going to do 60, 40 bond and equity.

No privates was involved.

And still to this day, 401ks don't buy privates, which we can have a

Yeah, but the idea that we would be able to do a multi-billion dollar deal for an S&P 500 company through private credit and through that was investment grade rated was something very foreign to the market, very new.

And you look now, we've done deals for BP.