John Zito

Funding at six or seven and buying an asset at five, six, or seven.

That's good.

That's good.

So I think it's going to be harder.

I think it's going to be harder.

You're taking more risk.

It's a different risk profile.

I think those assets should be matched more with IG long duration product, not levered product because the leverage is too expensive.

There'll be other times where the leverage is cheap, but right now it doesn't make all that much sense.

But we've raised all these pools of capital under a construct that all of these alternative products should make 15% plus rates of return in all different environments without the subsidy of effectively zero to negative rates.

That seems hard.

It seems really hard.

Private assets generally, private equity generally has made net returns 13 plus across the board.

You've seen packaging and secondaries grow.

Access points are going to grow.

I think that's a pretty good place to be in just generally private assets.

I'd say broadly speaking, we have a high level view that all assets are going to get more liquid over time.

So the question is, what's that going to do to returns?

And what's that going to do to volatility of those returns and the perceived riskiness of those assets?

This is back to the market structure conversation, which is