John Zito

But just understand risk reward or cost of capital structure per unit of risk.

It's a completely different framing because we have no walls.

They're not incentivized by a single fund.

They're incentivized

For us to originate 250 billion a year, you have to have a culture of wanting the issuer to do business with you again.

And so we have lots of repeat issuers that say, oh, we may give them an investment grade bond today, but in two years, it may be in a different situation.

They may need a pref rescue or something, or we're in COVID and it's a totally different environment.

But because we were in the capital structure, we did something appropriate before.

They're more likely to work with us later.

This point is, I don't think, as understood that there's narrowness by fund, narrowness by business.

We have no walls.

So our private equity team- It's a pool of capital.

There are funds that are different below, but the investment teams, we have discussions across.

I'll talk to our private equity team, to our credit team.

We can all talk to each other around, okay, maybe we should do this and maybe we should do that.

Maybe the company, maybe it would be better to structure it this way.

for this pool of capital because that's what makes sense for the issuer as opposed to the- So there's no hammer looking for a nail.

Having that and the flexibility to have all parts of that capital changed our business dramatically.

Changed our business dramatically in the last five years.

Marken really brought on Jim Bilardi and really in the middle of the financial crisis.