Jon Davids

But at a certain point, you've got to own the demand too.

And going back to your example of Crumble Cookies, urgency, scarcity, FOMO, limited time offers.

Another big one is rituals.

They build this habit of we're going to drop cookies on this day,

They're going to show up on TikTok this day, come into the store on this day.

All those things are what makes for a brand that people are obsessed with.

There's different levels.

So there's definitely the rented landscape, totally rented, which is I'm going to buy space on Google to get in front of your eyeballs.

Then you have the next level down, which is the social media platforms, which are not owned by you, but at least you have organic access to them and you've got to still play by the algorithm.

And then at the very bottom, you've got things like email.

You've also got podcasts and SMS, I would say, texting people's phone numbers online.

Ultimately, you want to get as close to first party data as you possibly can.

I want to have an un-intermediated relationship with you if you're my customer.

That comes down to phone and email.

But regardless, if you have touch points that are out there and if you're doing as you scale, if you're doing a lot of stuff, you start with Instagram, then you expand to TikTok and YouTube and X and podcast and video.

If you have enough touch points, you can be present in people's lives and part of their daily habits, even if they never subscribe or listen.

I do a podcast.

You do a podcast.

You do an amazing podcast.

And I'm sure you have people come up to you on the street, Ryan, or maybe email you and say, hey, I've been listening to you for six months, man.