Jon Lovett

Yes.

That you can go and grab and use to do this thing for which it had never been.

Are you seeing parallels to today?

So...

Sometimes you will see, and it is not the first, second, third, or fourth defense of Trump, but it's in there, kind of a more intellectual one, which is that all these liberals that say Donald Trump is a tyrant, that he's an authoritarian, FDR comes in, fundamentally changes the role of president, takes authority that few believed or imagined a president ever having,

bullies the court, expands the welfare state, changes the government, builds a bureaucracy.

And he's one of the libs, he's one of our top three.

Sure.

Is there some truth to the idea that what Roosevelt planned to do was basically decide the presidency was far more powerful in a way that was kind of lawless?

But because it was now in history in service of getting us out of the Great Depression, we look on it fondly in a way that's actually ignorant of its dangers.

I know.

I think it's a distinction that really matters.

You know, he talks about it in the 1932 convention speech that there was this concentration of economic power and we were in just an unprecedented crisis that demanded a response.

It was, I do think, ultimately

It was it was necessary and patriotic and not for his own enrichment.

Also, it was not done in concert with putting troops on American streets and crackdowns.

And, you know, I remember when Obama when President Obama used the most delicate of language to criticize Wall Street and he got a lot of shit for it.

Yes, I remember it super well.

But Roosevelt is talking about the money changers in the temple, but he doesn't villainize vast numbers of Americans.

I think part of what matters is that there was a respect and integrity in the use of power and the understanding that it was serious and therefore required a certain amount of forbearance in how you treat people and how you talk about them.