Jonathan Malesic

is also a cultural hero to us.

The, you know, brilliant but, you know, extremely cynical doctor, you know, House would be the classic example.

I was waiting two hours out there.

Fascinating.

Have you considered a career as a memoirist?

And this is why I think that you got to have all three dimensions to really understand burnout.

People will brag about how exhausted they are.

People sometimes brag about how cynical they are.

No one brags about how they feel their work isn't accomplishing anything.

So that I think is the key dimension.

Yeah, I think it probably has to do with frequency.

If you only feel like Peter in office space once or twice a month, things probably aren't all that bad.

If it's every day, there's a bigger problem.

Burnout is the result of a long-term mismatch between our ideals for work and the reality of our jobs, including this kind of sense that, you know, work will fulfill us or, you know, work is a way of proving our worth.

And along with that can be, you know, we have expectations for salary and benefits and schedule and so on.

So all those count as ideals or expectations.

And then there's the reality, which is the day-to-day and structural kind of reality of the jobs that we actually do.

What is our caseload?

What are our hours?

What are our actual salary and benefits?