Jonathan Ross
speaker
170 appearances
2 recordings
2 series
first heard Jan 2025
last heard 20 Oct
Jonathan Ross’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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recordings per month · last 12 monthsRecordings per month over the last 12 months — 1 in all, peaking in Oct 2025 with 1.
Appearances
Now the models are being given away for free. How much are we going to spend on inference? And now with the test time compute, I've asked questions of DeepSeq where it took 18,000 intermediate tokens before it gave me the answer.
I mean, it just makes sense, right? You don't train to become, you know, a cardiovascular surgeon and then that's what you do for 95% of your life and then you perform 5%. It's the opposite. You train for a little and then you do it for the rest of your life.
I don't know what the solution is. There's carrot and there's stick, right? So you can either use a stick, block it. That might be effective. I don't know that the U.S. has really done that before. There's also the carrot, which is it's kind of interesting how it's being offered for free in China and not just in China, but to anyone else. And then others are doing that, too.
Is it possible the CCP is underwriting that because they want the data? Dude, they're doing it with the car industry.
The thing is, we have a lesson from the Cold War, which was mutually assured destruction. The problem is we do some sort of tariff and then we do a tariff back. There needs to be some sort of automated response of like, if you do this, we will respond. If you subsidize this industry, we will automatically subsidize the equivalent industry. Just automatic.
So don't do it because there's no benefit to you. Does the fact that it's open source, how does that change everything? It's the only reason people are using it. If it wasn't open source, it wouldn't have gotten the excitement. And open always wins. Always. Keep in mind, Linux won back when people didn't trust open source. They thought it was less secure. They thought the features were worse.
It was more buggy. And it still won. Now people expect open to be more secure, less buggy, and have more features. So how is proprietary ever going to win?
Agree. Especially for the pricing, because they're losing their pricing power on this. I can't speak for Sam Altman or OpenAI or anything like that. But if I was in that position, I would be gearing up to open source my models in response, because it's pretty clear you're going to lose that. So you might as well try and win all the users and the love from open sourcing.
Otherwise, like you're already at a point where you're going to be using your other powers like brand and so on. I don't know why you try and keep that internal anymore.
But how would it cannibalize it any other way? Remember, distribution, right? How many people are going to buy something because they trust Dell? People trust Dell. Dell has earned their reputation over the course of decades. Supermicro built some interesting hardware, but look at what they've been going through recently. you know, there's a pro and con, right? Cheaper, trusted.
You got to make a decision. Open AI has been around for a while. Most people think of them synonymously as AI. They could just switch to deep seek and people would still use them. It's brand. It's one of the seven powers.
I would. And there's probably more cleverness. They could probably strike some deals before they do it or whatever, but that would be the move that I would make. And also it would be a position of strength. The only problem is the timing because if it happens right after deep seek, it looks like a response as opposed to an intentional thing. So I don't know how you do that.
Do you not just own in it's a response? Maybe, you know, we had to respond. We're better. Let's see which model people choose.
I think one of the ways that we've been looking at LLMs is a little bit like you look at an open source project, software project like Linux or something. The thing is, Linux has switching cost. And I think what we've discovered is LLMs have no switching cost whatsoever.
No, you don't really want your cloud very often. Okay, so let's start mapping seven powers to the top tech companies. So I would say Microsoft's biggest strength is switching cost, right? You go into a room full of people and you're like, who uses Microsoft? A bunch of hands go up and you're like, who likes using Microsoft? Hands go down. It's very largely switching cost.
So you go into, you know, Gen AI. Is that a thing that gets disrupted? You look at meta, it's network effects. They could literally give every piece of technology away for free. I am completely jealous of that because if I had that right now, I would open source everything. Because then you don't have to worry about it and you get everyone helping you.
So I think meta is sort of, because of the network effect thing, always in a position where open source is to their advantage. It almost doesn't matter where it comes from. Now, I'm sure that they would prefer to have the Linux of LLMs, but I think the more it goes open source, the more of an advantage they have inherently.
Meta is an amazing competitor. What they would normally do if this was some sort of proprietary social mechanism, they would try and replicate and then they would compete and they would say, come join or not. I don't think the come join works here, but the beautiful thing is all of the information for this model is available. Meta has already been doing this. They have way more compute.
The question is, Are they willing to scrape open AI like DeepSeek did? They've been super careful on everything that they've been doing. And so that's the disadvantage.
And I think that's going to happen. I think people will like you cannot lose. And so what it's done is it's changed the game. Right. So, OK, so let's talk about Europe for a minute. We almost forgot about Europe. It feels like with Europe, there's a lack of a willingness to take risk. There's a black mark if you get it wrong.
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