Jonathan Tweedie

I suspect they'll both happen at the same time.

Yeah.

But my view, corporates are already starting to look at this and starting to understand that they need to make sure, from a fairly selfish point of view, that they get better productivity if they can deliver a better working environment and less stress for the people.

What stresses us out most of the time?

It's working out how we're going to pay the mortgage at the end of the month, how we're going to pay for kids' school fees, whatever it might be that's stressing you.

As an employer, you want to remove that from your employees and therefore providing them with access to good and trusted advice is going to be crucial.

And when you look at every employer today who's mandated to provide pensions for their employees, making sure their employees understand the value of that pension, again, is hugely important to them because it enables them to make sure that their employees are motivated to protect themselves and to protect their families.

So I think employers will drive this quite quickly and will demand it.

I think that the reason I think government will do it at the same time is we're in a tight space financially.

The government recognizes that they need to find ways of removing some of the costs from the state.

Right.

And by encouraging and potentially even mandating employers to give their employees access not just to services but to the advice, may help them reduce some of that long-term burden.

But I think in order to get it right, the biggest challenge to the industry to do this today is the lack of alignment between the ombudsman

and the regulator.

And I think this is a big difference in the US.

They have a caveat environment.

There is much less financial protection.

I'm not for one moment advocating going there.

I don't think it's good for the majority of people.

It's very good for the minority.