Jordan B. Peterson

And I also think that's true, partly because real.

One of the things that people accept as real is pain.

And there's a subjective element to that, but there's nothing that people, you can't find anything

that people act in relationship to that demonstrates their belief in reality more than how they act when they're in pain.

It's like, say what you want and see how that works when you're in pain.

It doesn't work.

You're gonna act like it's real.

And so then you might say, well, pain is the fundamental reality.

But then you might say, well,

Maybe is there something that can help you cope with or mitigate pain or prevent it?

And the answer is, well, yes, there's all sorts of things.

Love helps with that.

And I mean, literally.

And so then wouldn't you say those things that help you deal with pain are more real than pain?

And then if it's the, if it's your...

Your participation in this vertical morality and this horizontal morality, your ability to align yourself with the highest and join with other people as a consequence, that's an ennobling of your spirit.

It helps you stave off pain and suffering.

How is there anything more real than that?

And you might say, I don't believe that.

I say, well, wait till you're in pain and see what you have left if you don't have that.