Jordan B. Peterson

The modern response to that so often is dispense with the shame.

Right.

You don't dispense with the sin.

But if the shame, the thing is, is that the shame is actually an index of weakness.

And we talked earlier about the fact that you shall ally yourself with sin.

powerful forces of virtue to sustain yourself through life.

And then if shame is an index that you've fallen short of that task, to dispense with the shame would mean to not even notice that you've revealed your weakness.

And that's going to be bad sociologically because your enemies might get wind of it, but it's not going to be so good for you either.

And so what do we make of that?

Let's just skip over the massacre.

So what do you have to say about that?

So there's 3,000 people are now killed because of this.

Well, I think you could also say that if once a society falls into an unbridled idolatrous licentiousness, the probability that massacre is about to occur is very high.

So, now, it's salutary in this sense, in this situation, because it's the price that has to be paid for progress towards the next covenant to be made.

But I also think that there's a kind of element of what...

implacability about it, inevitability about it.

You say they're just partying away madly, still, those people?

So this, in some way, these are the unredeemable souls, right?

Okay, okay.

Okay, so that's where we're coming to now.