Jordan Schneider

from Huiyao Bang, who was a prominent politician in the 1980s.

At one point he says, I was in these rooms in these meetings and even I didn't know, you know, who was advocating for what and why.

So like you can be like the premier of China and kind of not understand the machinations.

The idea that we can get a vision into it by reading Wall Street Journal articles, I think is silly.

But if you're talking about something like

trying to get a better handle on the question of why has the Chinese EV market succeeded?

For those sorts of questions, it's a pretty transparent system.

And, you know, these are companies, right, that like have to raise money and they put documents out and

you know, I watch YouTube videos of like car reviews on Billy Billy all the time for fun.

The government policies around subsidies and, you know, charging stations and whatever, all that stuff I think is very transparent.

And I agree with Kaiser from the perspective of there are really lessons that the U.S.

and other countries around the world should learn about when it comes to cultivating strategic industries and giving policy support and knowing when to

pull that policy support away and let the companies sort of run on their own.

So what's my one sentence conclusion for you, Azeem?

Like, yeah, like it is a very complicated, weird artifact, but it's not a fool's errand to try to learn things about it, even if you don't speak Chinese.

I think there's a lot of good writing and analysis out there.

No one ever asks.

So, you know, I was in Los Alamos.

I think there's like deep pandemic.

We did like I spent a few weeks with my wife, like driving around New Mexico and Texas.