Josh Ireland

And then, you know, that's the beginning that suddenly he realises that...

He gets fewer and fewer letters.

And the people who are still writing to him are writing to him from places like Siberia, from the Gulag, as it will become.

And then in 1929, he is shipped out of Russia.

He goes first to Istanbul, a small island called Principo of Istanbul.

Allegedly for what purpose?

Well, this is exile.

You know, Stalin's sort of growing in confidence, but still doesn't quite feel as if he can assassinate him.

Although, I think what people say is that the second the train leaves for...

Istanbul Stalin begins to regret that he's let Trotsky escape because he's done two things he's let Trotsky escape but Trotsky's also taken his archive with him at the back of his mind Stalin is absolutely terrified that somewhere in that archive will be some nugget of information which might bring him down okay

So this is the sort of beginning of his obsession with both killing Trotsky and also destroying his archive because he, as I said earlier, I think Trotsky is a good way of understanding how confident or not Stalin feels at any given moment in power.

And although we sort of now know him as being the sort of all-conquering leader, right through the 20s into the 30s, his hold on the power was still quite provisional.

He was the most important figure within the Soviet Union, but he's still trying to consolidate power.

He still is conscious that the mechanisms exist and the personalities exist who could shove him out any moment.

So he's cautious in a way that he always is.

You're listening to Dan Snow's History.

He does, almost instantly.

I mean, he's in a weird position in that because his belief in the revolution and the necessity of the revolution and the importance of the revolution remains completely undimmed.

He still thinks this is the greatest experiment in mankind's history.

So he has to sort of tow this...