Josh Laura

It's always... Like, we've been talking about men for 70 years.

Like... And I get it.

I literally... I have a master's degree in sociology.

I, like, trained under, like, feminists and my concentration was in gender and media studies.

Like, I know all of the data.

We have been talking about men for a very long time, right?

Like, even...

Like Mad Men and like the golden age of TV, right?

Mad Men, Breaking Bad, The Sopranos.

What do all those shows have in common?

They're all about 45-year-old straight white guys and the changing nature of masculinity, right?

Like we have been talking about this forever.

And I think that when you are putting all of your attention on like how can we save men, you are leaving out 50% of the population who's also suffering, right?

That's beautifully said.

And I a hundred percent agree.

I think that's, I think what we are sort of touching on and all of these different conversations is that all of masculinity has been changing because society is changing.

Right.

And the sort of pushback against this, I think it's a lot easier to happen with celebrities because they're so they're so

There's fewer of them.

And so obviously, they're hyper visible, but they're not like the regular guy.