Josh Mankiewicz

And then you throw in the maintenance man. And I'm like, OK, well, that's clearly who it is. Like, it's nearly probably the guy. It's neither Joe nor it's the maintenance man, obviously. And then it turns out, of course, it's somebody else entirely. And so from a Dateline storytelling point of view, I thought that was great. Well, that's very kind of you to say, Josh. Thank you.

when we're telling these stories, when we're writing them, is we have to do the storytelling in a way that it's not obvious from the get-go what happened, but we also have to stay completely faithful to the truth. Like, we're not going to say, you know, the maintenance man was a suspect if he wasn't a suspect.

when we're telling these stories, when we're writing them, is we have to do the storytelling in a way that it's not obvious from the get-go what happened, but we also have to stay completely faithful to the truth. Like, we're not going to say, you know, the maintenance man was a suspect if he wasn't a suspect.

We're not going to say the cops were looking at Joe and they were looking at David if they weren't. But they were.

We're not going to say the cops were looking at Joe and they were looking at David if they weren't. But they were.

And I mean, usually, almost always... the person who ends up being the culprit is the Joe of the story or the David of the story. Well, it's almost never the random guy who was not on police radar, but sometimes it is.

And I mean, usually, almost always... the person who ends up being the culprit is the Joe of the story or the David of the story. Well, it's almost never the random guy who was not on police radar, but sometimes it is.

I mean, look, look, I mean, I'm going to say upwards of 90% of dateline stories involve some sort of relationship between the killer. They're not, they're not unknown to each other.

I mean, look, look, I mean, I'm going to say upwards of 90% of dateline stories involve some sort of relationship between the killer. They're not, they're not unknown to each other.

I mean, the person who leaps out of the bushes and attacks someone and rapes them, That's the least common kind of rape. Almost always it's somebody that the victim knows. That's overwhelmingly likely. But that's sort of not widely known. And so people fear one maybe more than they should and fear the other maybe less than they should.

I mean, the person who leaps out of the bushes and attacks someone and rapes them, That's the least common kind of rape. Almost always it's somebody that the victim knows. That's overwhelmingly likely. But that's sort of not widely known. And so people fear one maybe more than they should and fear the other maybe less than they should.

So since this happened, Steve McDaniel has tried to appeal his case in Georgia state courts.

So since this happened, Steve McDaniel has tried to appeal his case in Georgia state courts.

Which usually means you give up any right to appeal. That's what a guilty jury does.

Which usually means you give up any right to appeal. That's what a guilty jury does.

Yeah. But in 2018, he claimed his constitutional rights were violated, asked for a new trial. He represented himself. He called one of his own defense attorneys as a witness in his case. Not the right move. No. No. That backfired. Because to do that, to call your attorney to testify in your appeal, he had to waive attorney-client privilege.

Yeah. But in 2018, he claimed his constitutional rights were violated, asked for a new trial. He represented himself. He called one of his own defense attorneys as a witness in his case. Not the right move. No. No. That backfired. Because to do that, to call your attorney to testify in your appeal, he had to waive attorney-client privilege.

Which means the attorney can now say anything that the defendant said to him during a time when that was privileged.

Which means the attorney can now say anything that the defendant said to him during a time when that was privileged.

What Stephen McDaniel's defense attorney, Floyd Buford, said when he could speak freely about what his client had shared with him, in other words, outside lawyer-client privilege, well, it's like something out of a horror movie. He testified that McDaniel had admitted to decapitating Lauren, cutting her fingers off, and flushing them down the toilet. Really awful stuff. And he also said...