Josh Shapiro

They get frustrated.

By the way, they get pissed.

And then not only are they pissed at that agency or that governor, or they're pissed at that state government, they also grow, and this is an important point, a little more cynical about government.

and a little bit more frustrated about the process.

And when that happens, I think that that creates more distrust in our system.

And it creates more opportunity for, I think, frankly, dark voices on extremes to come in and take advantage of people.

I find that if we get it done the right way, if we process things quickly, if we get people to yes, then maybe a byproduct of that is a little bit less cynicism in our system.

Yeah.

Look, I think we've got to focus on rooting fraud out of the system.

Now, you and I may differ on, hey, should we spend a dollar on that initiative or not?

And by the way, those are super healthy differences.

And we should argue that out.

We should debate that.

But where we should have no difference is if someone's stealing that dollar instead of going to its intended purpose, we should be against that.

And I am.

Prior to serving as governor and having the privilege of sitting here in this office, serving the good people of Pennsylvania, I was the state's attorney general.

And you'll remember back during COVID, there were those PPP loans to help our small businesses and other businesses stay afloat.

We'd probably agree, like, good idea, right?

We've got to keep businesses afloat.

But during that time, I went out and prosecuted a whole bunch of people for stealing that PPP money, for not using it for its intended purposes.