JR
Appearances
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
We had a really beautiful relationship.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
No, we just were kind of we actually didn't have very many conversations about the experience or the show leading up to it in general, which I think was our problem.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
We went into it very like whatever. We kind of winged it. And I will say, like, I tried to have a lot of conversations with you that you didn't want to have. But we did have the conversation around boundaries. And we basically said, like, yeah, no boundaries. I mean.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Before this, it was a 10. Right now, I feel actually pretty calm. Okay. Yeah. Could have been worse. I feel like there's a good energy in here. And it's, I mean, it's nice being, you know, seeing Nick. So I feel pretty calm right now. We'll see in like five minutes.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Yeah, like if you were going to have sex with anyone.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Yeah. And so that was clear as day. Like, okay, cool. We don't have to worry about that. But we were open to doing the experiment, like kissing or whatnot. That wasn't... Me and Nick have had a very open mind. We're really open-minded humans. And so that wasn't a crazy concept. It just didn't turn out the way that we...
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I think being there like we you know you don't have boundaries whatnot and okay you know you're in these types of experiences there's obviously you know there's kind of rules that they have I don't know if they have that bachelor or not but like with this it's like okay you guys are broken up you're there's no boundaries whatnot and so I think I was really trying to take it for what it was like the whole process and experience and like really dive into all of it and I think with that I was
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
kind of like delusional a little bit, like not really able to actually see what was going on. And I, again, I just had so much resentment. I was like, you wanted to do this and now we're doing it and now you're upset.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I mean, no, but he wanted to do it. He was all on board.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I didn't want to do it at first. And then we went through the process and I was very like, if it happens, it happens. Like, fine, whatever.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I had said no. I have the messages of me literally rejecting and saying no, thank you.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
If I knew that you didn't want to do it... I brought it to you saying that somebody reached out to me and I was like, this is... obviously like this is not something that we're going to do and you wanted to do it. And yes, we all like, we, we went through the process and it happened. And I'm not saying like that. I didn't want to do it. I'm just was more so holding kind of resentment because like,
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Of your overall, like, just kind of the attitude moving into it where you're like, oh, I can't wait to have all my sexy girlfriends and this and that and da-da-da-da-da. Like, you better watch out. It was, like, very, very playful and joking to the point where I was like, okay, damn. And then we got there and I think I was playing into it, too. And then it was just, then it got way too serious.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
No, I was like waiting for you to ask that.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
so yeah that is definitely kind of that was a big night um and we're seeing most of none of it and what we're seeing is like i mean it's not that's not exactly like how it went down i had a extraordinary of all the times i was having a hard time that day was the hardest so um
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
It's been better. It's been better, for sure.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
You know, how dare my boyfriend call me? It's not what it is. Trust me, because that is if he ever needed me and he came to me in a conscious, healthy way, just like, babe, I need you. I need to talk. I would drop everything and go across the country to go get you. And you know that. that's not what was happening.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And that's not, it's not what we see, but it is a continued pattern and cycle of whatever's going on in there affects his behavior out here. And then you, you mix in alcohol, whatever, and you're not in, it's a, it's not a healthy state of mind. Like, so what was happening that night? He was irate for like,
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
a lot of different reasons me i'm sure being one of them just the whole experience and everything like the fact that i'm living with another man and he's by himself i mean that alone is like torturous i 100 it was it was it was honestly ridiculous like that shouldn't have happened we honestly probably should just left y'all were living above you yeah we were living above him like very close corners i would imagine the point of the show is to trigger you guys
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Of course. And it triggered us to the breaking point. You know what I mean?
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And you see me run inside because I didn't want him to have the visual of me and J.R. on the balcony together having dinner. I just didn't want him to have that visual. And I was like, there's no way that this is happening right now. So I ran inside because J.R. had told me that you were walking around. I just didn't want you to see us together.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
in my head i was hearing that they i mean i do think you were hearing footsteps and here's the thing i moved back into the apartment that he was living in and you can hear what nick's saying but i get it i i think what you okay whatever
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I don't think it's... It doesn't show, obviously. It looks like we're like, like not talking about anything. I mean, what... Definitely look like you're into each other.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I mean, that's, and that's something that I don't, I could not understand in the moment. Like I look back and I'm just like, girl, like, come on. You know, it's like so obvious. Yes. But I was just like what Nick was going through and just he was alone. I'm with J.R. and it's like me and J.R. are super flirty. And like I could I could see that.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And in the moment, I couldn't because I was so wrapped up in my own experience and the things that were happening with with me and Nick before the show, during the show. was, like, overpowering everything. I didn't... It had nothing to do with JR, honestly, and it had everything to do with me and Nick. And that's what you're seeing the night that he comes to the apartment.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And it's not me being like... First of all, JR is the one that literally was like, no, no, no, you stay back. I'm getting the store. Because Nick had been calling... Like, I had been sobbing on the phone to Nick that night for hours. You see one thing and hang up, that's... that's a very, very tail end. And that's not even exactly how it happened.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
That is after like countless conversations of me begging him like, Hey, please, I'm not in a space to talk right now. Like, and he was not in the space to talk either. He was, and he wasn't respecting that. And obviously like, he wasn't in a mental, physical state to talk. He was very intoxicated. Like, like if somebody is calling you, like, it's like, you know how that's going to go down.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I know because I, I've been down this road with him many times. I've seen him in that state many times before. And I've learned to just disengage when that's happening. Me engaging is not going to do us any good.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Like he knew. I mean, of course I was living with him. And so he would hear me like he knew I was going through it. I would be like really upset. And so that I do think that he got kind of protective in a way, like in a weird way. I guess.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Okay, he's not being serious. I know that it seems that way, but obviously I'm not his wife.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I get it and I think with um there was disrespect I mean there was disrespect on my end just not like comprehending the whole situation in itself and being like okay wait a minute like no no like that's my real life boyfriend like this is like kind of this is a trial marriage you know what I mean like there's certain things that like don't talk to him that way in terms of the night that he came to the apartment though it is very different I do want to like say that it was like
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
things kept happening and i think jr had just seen me so like broken down and upset over it that he was trying to step in but i don't know that was it was a very weird like why did jr at any point just be like just go talk to your guy you know like well what had happened was nick had told me like i'm coming to the apartment and i was like no you're not like you will not come to this apartment right now i don't want to talk to you this is not a healthy environment
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
dynamic. You're not in the right mental, physical, or emotional state that this is not going to go well if we talk. And he came to the door and JR was like, you're staying back there. I'm going to the door because JR was pissed because he lives there. And I was like, this is not actually happening right now.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
That's why I'm like so uncomfortable laughing because I'm like, this is not real life right now. There's no way that like these men are about to go at it. And I'm like,
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
It was so uncomfortable. And I have a really bad nervous laugh, like really bad. You guys, I always got in trouble.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
It's horrible. And there was nothing funny about that, by the way, like nothing. I was crying two seconds before that. And then I just I was more of like JR being like, no, you stand back. And like he like ran to the door. I was like, this is not happening, you know. But I just think that there was a lack of respect.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And knowing what I know now in that moment, like I would have dropped everything and been there for him.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
100% because we're not in a normal situation this isn't just like oh you know he's having a breakdown like and we're back at home and after the bar it's like this was different and he really needed me in that moment I didn't show up for him and that really hurts me because I've showed up for you so much throughout our relationship like I really have and like that sucks you know that's like
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
It's really difficult to watch, honestly.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
From his... The things that were happening off camera and... If we want to talk about it, like, but there was a lot that you guys are not seeing in the relationship and what was going on.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
But you weren't just like it wasn't just like we need to get the fuck out of here. It's look, it was very unhealthy in terms of the communication and what was going on.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Like, literally opposite. Like... Like, he wasn't... He wouldn't call me. He wouldn't text me unless we were together, even when we were together.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
He wasn't present with me, you guys. Like, I spent more time with my best friend and her boyfriend than with him. Paint the picture for me.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
No, it wasn't ever like I knew it was never. Well, actually, I didn't know if it was intentional or not. I just was like, do you? I felt like he was pushing me to break up with him because he was not around. And I think he just was in his own head going through his own thing. So it was just naturally like there was kind of a disconnect. But I'm very much like I need somebody in front of me.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I'm really big on quality time. I'm big on physical touch. It was like he wasn't physically with me. Like he would go sleep on the couch for like just because he like needs to move around a lot, you know, and I'm like. We would do things like with our friends and he would never like he can never make it. He never want to come. So I'd be with my best friend and her boyfriend.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And I'm like, where's my boyfriend? You know, so it was actually kind of like an absent boyfriend thing.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I don't know. I honestly like I do think that we were at a really rocky point in our relationship. And I was like.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Last time I saw him in person. But I will say we've actually been like good supports for each other through all of this. Like Nick and I, we would not be sitting here together if we didn't still like care about each other and love each other as humans. And so to your point, Natalie, I actually like we have leaned on each other through this because we... It's so weird.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
kind of wanting to just give it like give it my all and that's what happened with me going into the experience with JR whatnot a lot of stuff happened like that we don't see with Nick and I and I almost wanted to just like leave the whole experience and I was like I owe it to my relationship to give it my all and be with him and the thing is it's like
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
where basically I knew in my gut that I didn't want to go but instead of just me being assertive and saying I don't want to do that and we're not doing that and if you want to do that go I kind of you decided to go and be a baby I didn't go no it's yeah I mean that's just the whole thing in itself but that was that was literally like the week before we left for the ultimate I mean we came out and it was like one of our biggest fights and it was just this whole thing I'm like in Europe by myself with like my friend so you left her
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
She was with my friend or boyfriend. But it's like, I went there because I wanted to be with you. We went to a wedding. It doesn't matter. I don't think that this is like that important. But that was... Well, I mean, you guys aren't on the same page.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I just didn't know if it's like... I thought it was important for you to stay with me.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I mean, you know, you've been on reality shows like people don't understand unless you've gone through it and then throw in our real life relationship, real life issues that we truly struggled with. And now they're just like all over the TV for the entire world to judge. It's a really weird thing to go through and it's hard. But I do think that we've shown up for each other throughout this process.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
So I'm, I think there were other factors like,
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
involved that made it really difficult to be on the same page or make certain decisions and i think that's just kind of what i mean that was for europe that was a big break and it's not just about lifestyle decisions or mykonos or whatnot like who gives a fuck honestly it's more about the behavior and like how you're showing up versus how you're not showing up and that's just kind of kind of like we had this weird i don't want to say role reversal but i i would say that
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
as best as we can because we are broken up. Yeah.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I don't think he handled Jarrett in any wrong way.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Oh, you mean it was too over, yeah.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I mean, look, I... JR has this like exterior shell and I kind of talk about it. I mean, I wish they showed more. I was like really trying to help him like break that down because him and I actually had a lot of conversation around his past, his childhood, his upbringing, his divorce, like, you know, things that were deep rooted for both of us.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And so I feel like I really saw kind of like what's underneath all of their deep down. And I was kind of like vouching for that. But
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Yeah, I mean, look, I cannot speak for JR. That's his thing.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I think in the beginning, honestly, I'll be real. Like, I couldn't see that because we're not interacting with the other castmates, you guys. Like, we're not allowed to interact with other castmates. You were literally just with this person. And so I didn't really see any of that stuff until a little bit later. And as more time went on and his interactions with you and whatnot increased,
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And, you know, it would bother me because I'm I'm a very like social person. I'm very big on, you know, making friends and whatnot and just like being kind to other people. I know I might not look like that, but I really am. And I was like, why are you like, you know, why do you have a problem with everybody? Like, this is not how I how I am. But again, we're in this like weird experiment.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
You're matched up with somebody. You got to you got to pick from some from one of five people there. And once you're in there, you're in it.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And it's like there's a lot more that you guys just aren't seeing, obviously, in terms of like what we're working on, the conversations that we're having, you know, how we're trying to like show up for each other so that we can show up better for our partners and challenge each other on certain things. Like I understand that like doesn't make any sense because you quite literally see zero of that.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
So, like, why would anybody think that? But with these really intense experiences, there's a reason it's two months because you want to get the whole experience. And it's more than just what we're seeing, obviously. There's, you know, because at the end of it, it's like there is a decision for an engagement or whatnot. And you really are kind of going through, like, a trial marriage.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I don't know. I do see things differently. Just, like, having over a year to kind of, like, process everything, having a step away from it, and then now, like, seeing it as a mirror, for sure.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
right you know telling aria he was gonna get her pregnant and like right you know i feel like all of those things even the hall pass yeah slip i mean so i mean i'll i'll be honest like there were a lot of things that i didn't see when i was in there because and i'm just like fun and flirty and like oh whatever me and nick go into it we're like we're having fun whatever and then it's like
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And I realized that there was definitely a lot of things where like I just shouldn't have even like gone along with it. Or I honestly like I can see it in my face. I know I remember certain moments where like I'm like, OK, can we not say that right now? Can we not talk about that? Like I just would get a little bit uncomfortable.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
But it's like then we would instantly talk about, you know, spirituality or our families. And it was like, OK, cool. Obviously, that's not shown. But, you know, there were a lot of those moments.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
comments that were just inappropriate and there was just too much of it honestly and it just was like okay enough and um yeah i mean and then seeing some of the things that he was saying honestly about me like that i had no idea about were really upsetting to me and i just was like upsetting
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
you know the whole like he wants to be with a white girl no strings attached comment like that I just was like wow like that's really interesting because that's not how I was perceiving like our connection or whatnot and so yeah that was that was upsetting to see and Had I known certain bits of information, maybe I would have done things differently.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I mean, there's a lot of things that have happened in our relationship and through the process where Nick's emotional, like, volatility or instability genuinely just crossed way too many boundaries. And I think at the changeover, it was right after a big tipping point. And you can see it. I am so upset. I am clearly so mad. Nick is apologizing to me.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
We're like, what the fuck is this about, though? You Why would he be apologizing to her? She's just going through this trial marriage with Jerry. He's alone. But there's just a lot more that we can't see. And honestly, it's just... It's relationship stuff. And there's things that Nick has struggled with.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Yeah, I don't even care about that, though. I support his art. Like I'm his biggest supporter.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
So there's a lot of instability with it and it takes a toll.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I don't know. I really loved him. Like, I really did. Like, I just, it's, like, a weird, hard thing. I mean, I still love him. I care about him tremendously. Why were you in love with him so much that you want to put up with him? I was in love with him because he showed me, like, he opened up my eyes to life. Like, he really did. He changed my world in, like, the best way.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And I'm literally going to get emotional, but he, like, Like we just had actually some of the most beautiful moments I've ever had in my life. And I don't know. It's like we did actually have a really beautiful relationship. He opened up my perspective. He opened up my heart. Like I learned I actually grew as a human from loving him. Most people grow through heartbreaks.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Like I grew through loving him because there were a lot of challenges in there. And like there are things that he struggles with in himself and not like it. I really showed up for him a lot of ways. And I don't know. We just had the best moments together. And I really... Yeah, we have a very deep soul connection. And he's just one of the most amazing humans that I've met. And it's hard because...
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
It doesn't mean that he's the right life partner for me or that we're the right life partners for each other. But I've never had a relationship where it's like we we were always so understanding of one another and so like free and just trusting. And it was healthy in a lot of ways until it wasn't. You know, he really like he changed my world. Like you really he really has.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Yeah, I mean, words of affirmation is not my thing. It's really challenging for me to, like, really speak up for myself sometimes and say what's on my heart and how I feel about certain things. Whereas it's really easy for you to do that, you know? And we do have different ways that we try to show our love and affection.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I mean, I was shocked. I couldn't believe like that happened. I couldn't believe that she was saying the things that she was because I had no idea that that was her experience or that she even uncovered that what she was saying. It was like, why?
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I felt like she was speaking for me almost like it was like she was, you know, articulating a lot of things that I very deeply was kind of going through in the relationship that I had been struggling with for years that I haven't really been able to, like, verbalize or talk about.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
But I do, I do want to say like 15 minute bullshit right there. She should have stayed on her couch. I do want to say like that. It was like a weird thing where I'm like, she was almost kind of speaking certain things that I had felt, but I had never really spoken up about. It was also kind of weird. Cause I'm like, wait, are you his ex-girlfriend or am I, you know?
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Like, so I just, it was a little bit interesting where I haven't really felt comfortable sharing certain things or talking about certain things. And, She did. I don't know. And I, you know, I think that in some ways, like, it kind of was describing some things that I had been going through with you.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Otherwise, why would she know? I just, it was, yeah, it was really interesting that she, yeah.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I think it's more than just through the experience. I think there's been patterns in the relationship, and a lot of people can probably relate to that, that struggle with any sort of substance abuse. There's textbook patterns and things that happen within yourself and around with the people that you love and relationships, and it's really, really hard to navigate.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And I tried, like, I really...
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
gave it my all with trying to like be there for you and show up for you i would drop everything and go make sure he was okay if he was struggling with certain things or what about like on a day-to-day basis i mean she's right i mean less conversations and like yeah i don't know it's like how do you like really show up and support somebody that's going through you know i guess just in general how did you guys show up for each other in the relationship when it was good
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I mean, we've had a lot of really, really good conversations around really heavy, hard topics. And, you know, I think just showing him the love and compassion when he was broken and like... You gave him a safe space to be vulnerable and to be open. Yeah, we were like... That's huge. I very much... And I...
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
never like judged him for any of it like I was very much a safe space for you to open up and share all that stuff with me and I wanted to help like that was naturally like what we want to do as women is just like you know have solutions and help and like nurture and I was very very nurturing to him
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
through all of this and but also in in turn it was it was hurting me too you know because it's like i have certain boundaries within myself and you know thing after thing would happen and then it's like i i'm i'm disrespecting my own boundary by by staying in it but i would lie i would lie about using yeah like and like that's i mean i think it's like it's a textbook thing of course and i it's shame you know and it's guilt and it's it's there's a lot more than alcohol
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
You know, I think just like my social life has always been a big thing for me. I genuinely love human interaction and making new friends.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I just am. I'm a social butterfly. And so for me, going out is really just having fun, going out and being with people, dancing with your girlfriends, whatnot. Like it energizes me. I'm an extrovert, you know? Totally.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
So I think for me is having a partner that also enjoys to go out to like, that we can go socialize with couples and it, and I don't need to go out all the time. You guys, like I genuinely, I'm either a homebody or I'm out. Like it's kind of like one or the other for me, but something that's really big for me that I've realized just through relationships.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I don't know I think what's really what's really big for me that I've realized throughout like through my relationships is I do want a partner that um wants a similar thing you know it's and they have a social life too that they you know want to be around and um and it's not a like a shameful thing it's not something that I need to like completely get rid of I don't think being in a relationship means like oh well that's it like we're gonna wipe away like
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
our social life that's you know what i mean there's a way to do it yeah we're very social i guess it just depends on what it depends on what totally like do i need to go to the club with my man i mean maybe sometimes if we want to but not like not all the time i think there's just a level of socialization and with with nick for instance like he's way more introverted and i just have like an anti-club direction
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
But you wouldn't even want to go out to dinners, Nick. Like you wouldn't want to go out to dinners. You wouldn't want to go hang out with friends. So it's like we and we really had the best time like ourselves, you know, hanging out on the couch and having our own like dance party and whatever.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
But it's just that's a lifestyle thing when you're when it's a life partner that you do kind of want to be aligned with, because if not, that's a really big like that's a really big difference. But yeah, it's not just about like, oh, I want to be single because I want to go out. No, I'm I'll be single until I find the right person.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
No, absolutely not. I will set the record straight right here, right now. Literally nothing happened past the kiss with me and J.R., I know it looks very bad. It looks a lot worse than it was. JR was a bit performative when it came to certain things. That's my wife. Oh, like, you know, hey, girl, what you doing? Hey, babe. He was never calling me babe when the cameras weren't around. Ever.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
He was performing. A little bit, yeah. He would never... It was not the vibe. That's why it's really difficult for me to see because I'm like, damn, it really looks a certain way.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
You know what? Honestly, I'm very new here. We're just like normal humans that just got thrown into this and then there's cameras around. You don't really know how it's all going to look. Right. And we kind of were like... okay, like, we're trial, like, it's my trial hubby, it's my trial wife, whatnot, and, like, really playing into it.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
But, you know, there were certain things that he was playing up. And the guy's night, for instance, with him, like, almost insinuating that, like, we were sleeping together.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
the same bed so I don't know what really happened because I wasn't there but obviously there's editing and whatnot and it's like oh cliffhanger um but JR had told me specifically that he was kind of leaving it open-ended to be like oh and I was like why the fuck would you do that like that's not something to play around with here I'm over here in every interview and every conversation being like we're not sleeping together we're not hooking up you know trying to lay that down because I owe that to myself and I think he was kind of giving into like the the drama of it a little bit
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
and it really fucked me over like i don't know it just that sucks that's really hard for me because we didn't like genuinely you guys what you see is honestly worse than what it was and that is the extent of it period and yeah it's just it's hard like nick you seemed very uncomfortable a lot of people a lot of people are talking about it and it's a lot of like
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
We didn't do anything like at all.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
So I am sorry. That's OK. I mean, look, here's the thing. I don't really, like, take this type of stuff personally because we're on a TV show. This is what we signed up for. We're putting our life, our relationship out there for people to judge. I'm a big fan of reality shows. I would be like, oh, damn. Like, so when I'm seeing this, I don't blame anybody for thinking that. Like, of course.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
But it's just frustrating because it's like, that's not actually what happened. That's not really... But, you know, I think that's on us for being a bit too, like, leaning into the flirtiness and, you know... kind of leading with that when really that was like this in terms of our trial marriage and our connection. It was mostly all like mental and emotional, truly.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
You know, there's a lot like I normally am not the type of person that's like, oh, I regret something because there are learning lessons through everything truly. And there have been a lot of learning lessons through this. But I can't lie when I say like there's a lot of things that I would just do differently.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And it sucks that like you don't get to see any of those conversations because people really are just like you guys were just here to mess around and whatnot. And it's hurtful for me because I really like I really gave I really worked on a lot while we were in there. And I challenged JR to work on a lot too. And that's where you hear me say, oh, I'm trying to train you.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Obviously, that wasn't the right wording in that moment. But I was trying to challenge JR so much to show up better for either Zayna or any other person that he's with. we dug into like his childhood, his marriage, and just his mindset of things that he was holding onto. And I was trying to like, I got into arguments with him over these things.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I'm like, you better be making Zayn a breakfast every morning because he would make breakfast every damn morning and was very much like wanting to just have it for himself. And so there was just a lot of different things that I was challenging him to, you know, think about the partnership over just yourself and the social media conversation, which we don't really see much of. But
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Oh, really? You wanted Forge and Favors of the Bold?
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Truly, I think if I can pinpoint one of them, it would probably just be my overall like attitude and kind of my frustrations that I was holding on to towards Nick through through the process. And just like me not really considering what he was going through, because it's very clear to everybody else. Of course, it's very, you know.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Yeah, well, I mean, I think it says a lot about like our relationship and just like, you know, the love and respect that we have for each other as humans. It was a really crazy thing that we went through and I feel like it kind of brought out the worst in all of it. But like for us to be able to come together and do this, I mean, I think it says a lot.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Right, right. And I see that now. And in the moment, you guys, it's so hard to see other people's experience because it's so intense for yourself. And it was really, really intense. And there's a lot of things that happen that we don't see in regards to me and Nick and kind of what we're talking about here that made it just worse and worse and worse.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And yeah, I mean, it just I think it just got out of hand. But that's definitely something for me because I truly I mean, I care about this man so much. And our love has never been the issue. Like, It's never been a problem for us. And it really is hard for me to watch because it just looks like I don't give a shit, you know, when really I was just hurting myself.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
There's just so much that you guys... That nobody sees, obviously.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I'm a big fan. I love you guys. I've been listening to your podcast for years.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
Right. But he wanted to do it.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
okay um did you not want to i mean i was open to doing it like but i originally said no okay i got reached out to and i declined i was like that's not something that i want to do our relationship is not that serious to go into like a marriage proposal and because we were very often on in our relationship and i think that's something to to note him and i had not been dating for two and a half years we had known each other for two and a half years
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And we had been actually dating for about nine months before going on the ultimatum. And within those nine months, we had broken up maybe five, six times. Context we did not know. Exactly. So it's very different than being in a solid two and a half year committed relationship. It's very true. But we had this love that was undeniable. And we had loved each other.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
We had said we loved each other before we even actually started dating, dating. So we did love each other for like maybe two years or so. But it was very, you know, off and on. But yeah, I mean, we obviously both agreed to it. And yeah, there were moments where I was just like frustrated where, you know, I'm like, you wanted to do this.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I think that frustration was more so stemming from the the overall like attitude that we both kind of had, but mostly him had moving into it.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
was so like unbothered was very we were very silly and playful about it it was not like this serious somber thing where we're like oh my god like we're gonna break up like he was really chill about it and almost to the point where it was like a little bit bothering to me because I'm like okay is you know Does this not like freak you out?
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I just had felt pretty like taken for granted in the relationship. And so then I think moving into it, the reason why I'm like, you know, what's going on is because all of a sudden it switched because it got real because we didn't know how intense it was going to be. And I think his real heart and like feelings for me showed up like the second we got there.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
But you guys have to understand before we got there, it was not like that. But that wasn't because he didn't love me or actually want to be with me. It was just because he was running from his own things or whatnot. So it was like you were avoidant in the relationship. And I moved into the experience with that like all over me. And then I was just like, wait, why is this all of a sudden flipped?
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
No, it's okay. Neither do I, guys. We do not blame y'all. Hi. How are you?
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
You know, now that we're here.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I think it has to do with some of the kind of the emotional turmoil or whatnot that Nick had been going through. And obviously, like you can speak more to it. But there was just a lot of like instability, I think, in terms of like the surface level of our dynamic in our lifestyle and our relationship. But in terms of like
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
underneath that, our actual connection and love for each other, we always would find a way back to each other because we really, really do love each other.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
I know. Good to see you. I'm good. Thanks. Oh, all the same. I like you.
The Viall Files
E860 Going Deeper with Nick and Sandy - The Ultimatum
And he kind of gave me like a mini old tomato. And I did.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Arango and Ferreira on the Move, Moyes Returns to Everton, and Arsenal Out of FA Cup
What's up, guys?
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Arango and Ferreira on the Move, Moyes Returns to Everton, and Arsenal Out of FA Cup
The FC St. Pauly third shirt. What? Amazing shirt. And it was very, very good to me this year. They have three shirts. That's great. They do. That's impressive. You get to the Bundesliga, you know.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Arango and Ferreira on the Move, Moyes Returns to Everton, and Arsenal Out of FA Cup
Okay, our first question is from JB via email. My youngest son loves soccer. How do I support him going pro and one day earning the Landon Donovan MVP award?
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Arango and Ferreira on the Move, Moyes Returns to Everton, and Arsenal Out of FA Cup
Okay, a question from Katie via email. I've seen a lot of complaints of women's teams hiring people from the men's game and not from within the women's game. What are your thoughts on this? What are the differences between the men's and women's game that you have learned by joining ownerships and by coaching?
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Arango and Ferreira on the Move, Moyes Returns to Everton, and Arsenal Out of FA Cup
Those are two very deep answers to two very deep questions. So I'm going to let you guys move on to anything but soccer. But thanks for that. Thanks, Jordan.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
Wow.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
2006?
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
Happy New Year. Are you wearing a Milan jersey? I'm wearing the 125th anniversary shirt.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
Well, I'm a fan of really sweet looking shirts.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
The crest is wild. How was your New Year? It was good. It was nice and quiet.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
Actually not quiet. I don't know, Tim, how you felt about this, but we had the craziest thunder and lightning storm for New Year's Eve.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
Yeah, yeah, yeah. At first I thought it was fireworks, but then I was like, oh, no, the sky's falling.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
Like at midnight. It was so wild.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
Terrible.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
And New York people don't go there.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
We think those people are crazy.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
Okay, I got a couple of different questions for you. Let's start with one. that references something you were talking about earlier. So we've got a question from Evan via YouTube. He said, do you guys think Anthony Robinson will sign for a big club in the summer? And do you guys rank him in the top three U.S. left backs of all time?
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
How about a question from Paul via email? When a team is in a bad run of form, how do you know when it's the fault of the players, the manager, or the ownership?
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
Speaking of managers, here is a question from Leonard via email. David Moyse has been out of a job since leaving West Ham last May. If he were to come work in the U.S., where would be the best place for him?
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
OK, one last question for you. This one is from Ben via email. And Ben is thinking about the fact that he thinks Everton missed a big opportunity by never properly marketing the club to the U.S. market. And so he wants to know if you guys think TFG will revisit this market with any real strategy now that they have bought the club or has the opportunity been missed?
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Antonee Robinson Gets Honored, Manchester United Get a Point at Anfield, and Brandon Vázquez Gets His Bag
Awesome. Thanks, guys.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Promotion and Relegation with Adam Crafton
Hello. I don't know if I can follow that. Adam was great.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Promotion and Relegation with Adam Crafton
Well, let's start with the questions that we've gotten so far already. These are all about promotion and relegation. We're staying with the theme this week. So the first one came via YouTube. Someone who's identifying themselves as EGC. EGC. Whatever that means. What does your ideal American soccer landscape look like in 50 years?
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Promotion and Relegation with Adam Crafton
If we aren't aiming to build a pyramid, what are we trying to build? And are we done growing? Hmm.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Promotion and Relegation with Adam Crafton
OK, here is a question from Neil via email. How do you feel about so-called yo-yo teams, a label famously put on teams like West Brom who go up and down fairly regularly between the championship and the Premier League? Is there a value in being that type of team or is staying competitive in the championship more beneficial?
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Promotion and Relegation with Adam Crafton
So just a follow-up question. Is it a, if promotion and relegation were to be adopted by any league, is that position that those yo-yo teams, is that going to happen in any league?
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Promotion and Relegation with Adam Crafton
And a lot of those clubs have a lot of trophies, right.
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Promotion and Relegation with Adam Crafton
Okay. This question is from MNB via YouTube in a two tier MLS. If you remove the financial penalty of relegation and split revenues relatively equally across all teams from both divisions, would that remove the hesitations of promotion and relegation?
Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard
Promotion and Relegation with Adam Crafton
All right. That's it, guys. Thank you.