Julia Shaw

And so looking at all the different levels.

And I think that's where you get some clarity.

And actually at the end of the book, for me,

I felt so optimistic.

I went into green crime because I, like most people in the world, at least according to a recent UN climate survey, something like 85 to 90% of people in the world think about the climate crisis on a regular basis.

Most people think about it every single day.

This idea that there's this minority of people who care about climate change, that's an illusion.

That's not true.

And if you ask people...

what the emotional consequences are of those feelings.

People say things like eco-anxiety, anger, sadness, grief, that we're worried about the future.

But what you want is for people to feel motivated, energized, purposeful about tackling one of the biggest issues of our time.

And certainly by meeting all of these UN researchers, I went to so many conferences.

You have no idea how many conferences I went to.

I went to anti-corruption conferences.

I went to wildlife crime conferences.

I went to the specific meeting of multilateral agreements to see how people were negotiating in the room and the tensions between it.

It was wild.

It's so interesting.

It's such a huge space and it gave me so much hope for the future.