Julie Shapiro

But it's also like this iconic duration, right?

Like three minute pop songs are very popular.

And these flux works, we call them flux works, almost end up being like songs or like little pop songs that you can listen to over and over.

And there certainly are some that I kind of sing along with when I hear them.

So, you can do enough in three minutes to make a really compelling, memorable, profound audio story, but it also is not too daunting if you're trying to do something in a limited amount of time or for the first time.

I know.

Well, this is our way of protesting against all of the, you know, what's happened to podcasting in a way.

I just, I'm a big, I want, I'm a big podcast fan.

I make podcasts.

I listen to podcasts.

But I have, you know, I think we're all a little frustrated with some of the things that have happened in the industry and how the kind of imagination has left the building.

So we've had two banner years, I must say.

We have run six different circuits, which means we have partnered with six different creative partners, six different sets of rules, six different themes.

And the life cycle of a circuit is that we commission four pieces from producers who we invite, and then we do an open call.

And then anyone can participate in the open call.

And then we pick winners and we present the winners and the commission works at a big live event somewhere.

It's really important to us to bring the community together to listen to these pieces.

And so we have been always debuting them first in a public setting at a conference or a festival.

And then we put them online and now we have the podcast for them to appear in as well.

So our partner for the first circuit was the incredible artist and illustrator Wendy McNaughton.