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Justin Johnson

Appearances

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

1000.354

Yeah, which one's the tortoise and which one's the hare?

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

13.893

Nancy has witnessed the state's vision for clean energy firsthand. Soon after she was elected, a bill was being considered to get more of their electricity than ever from renewables. But there was a problem.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

137.062

Cooper Katz for Kim, producer extraordinaire with The Indicator. You're back from your travels west. We sent you on a journey to see these batteries firsthand.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

247.836

And this site is packed with energy, right? I heard that Cal Flats has enough storage capacity to power 60,000 homes over an afternoon.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

300.094

Sounds like you might have got a bit of a California tan, Cooper. Yeah, the sun is not my friend as a redheaded man. So it sounds like you'll be happier when the sun goes down, which is when Arrivon sells the power when prices are high. Arrivon then moves the renewable electrons onto underground cables to transmission lines to the grid.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

320.154

For this power specifically, Arrivon has two customers that buy this power, Apple and PG&E, California's biggest electricity provider.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

35.875

And one way to store energy? A battery. Extra solar and wind electrons that aren't needed on the grid could flow into a battery. The problem was, though, grid-scale storage wasn't really a thing.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

355.333

All right. So how did we actually get here? Remember that utility providers were saying to Nancy Skinner that this was some kind of pie in the sky, California dreaming concept.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

394.161

And so what we're left with is a totally new way for renewables to interact with the electricity grid. The power created by the sun or wind can go further now, tapped into whenever a customer like Apple or PG&E wants it.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

451.061

Tech companies aren't alone. Electricity demand is spiking worldwide due to data centers, but also electric cars, trains, cryptocurrency mining. Demand is also coming from grid services, like serving as a backup power if there's ever a blackout due to maybe an overworked grid.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

497.042

California has a long history of expanding its alternative energy sources. Historically, the Golden State has been way ahead of the curve on renewables, going all the way back to the 1980s with support and subsidies from both Republican and Democratic governors. But when it comes to the ongoing battery expansion, Justin Johnson says things are just getting started.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

555.308

California got where it was because of planning from politicians like Nancy Skinner. But in Texas, they take a bit more of a hands-off, free market rodeo type way of doing things.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

594.935

But keeping up with that thirst for electricity was a scramble. The sun was setting earlier as the summer gave way to fall, and that meant less solar power in the evening. That day the wind was forecast to be low, so not much wind power just when people got home and turned on their ACs and TVs and ovens. Also, a few power plants were out of commission.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

645.563

Texas's approach to the power grid is rather different than the one in California. California takes more of a longer-term planning approach. Project approval is finalized after more assessment of how generators might fit into these plans. And the state offers long-term contracts to give electricity generators certainty before they invest in, say, a new grid-scale battery project.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

684.791

But to Stephanie Smith, the chief operating officer for Eolian, that's the way her battery building company likes it.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

697.223

In Texas, if the price goes very low, well, then maybe some operators need to stop producing power. If there's a spike in the price of electricity, great. That gives operators like Eolian the incentive to put more electricity onto the grid.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

734.079

Imagine rows and rows of those shipping containers filled with like hundreds of electric car batteries. The easiest use case to imagine is overnight when the sun's not shining on solar panels. You know, the price of electricity could be high and Eolian then releases some of its batteries. And then when the sun is shining the next day and electricity is cheap, it tops back up those batteries.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

790.374

And that day in September 2023 was the ultimate test of whether Texas's free market batteries, like the ones that Stephanie's company owns, could stabilize the grid and avoid blackouts.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

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As evening came, Texas's power reserves dwindled. A bunch of wind electricity was being produced in the south, but was overloading the wires, taking them to the north, where a lot of the demand was. This was a dangerous situation of congestion. At one point, people in Stephanie's company noticed the signs of a huge gap in electricity needs.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

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And I'm Darian Woods. After years of nothing, grid-scale batteries are now widely used and growing fast. Basically, the same tech that's in your phone is now helping power millions of homes across America. How did that happen, and what does the newfound success mean for the grid?

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

916.886

It's like the duck paddling. You guys are the feet paddling very fast and the duck just cruises along the pond.

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

930.955

So is this a story about the beauty of prices and visibly guiding company behavior all around Texas? Is this a free market fable?

Planet Money

Re-imagining the energy grid ... through batteries (Two Indicators)

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Whatever the case, the Texas system is encouraging companies to build a lot of grid-scale batteries. From basically nothing in 2020, by 2024, the state had enough batteries to power an entire small city for a day. In the battery race of California, Texas is coming second, but it is catching up fast.

Short Wave

When Batteries Get A Face Lift, So Do Renewables

124.931

These containers you see with, you know, what is it, six or seven doors? And each one of these containers has a bunch of modules that would look like big suitcases that have the battery cells, the DC batteries.

Short Wave

When Batteries Get A Face Lift, So Do Renewables

173.826

If you have a solar plant... or a battery plant or a combination, you know, a solar and battery plant anywhere in the U.S. that's ready to be built these days, you can find an offtaker.