Justin Termine

Yeah, I wouldn't say that was all in the media. I mean, Jalen Brown gets along with him now. He didn't do that when he was in Boston. I thought one of the worst things that I saw from a teammate, and I think the worst thing on his resume, is at game seven of the Eastern Conference Finals when he's hurt and he's not sitting there supporting his teammates when he was claiming that he was a leader.

Yeah, I wouldn't say that was all in the media. I mean, Jalen Brown gets along with him now. He didn't do that when he was in Boston. I thought one of the worst things that I saw from a teammate, and I think the worst thing on his resume, is at game seven of the Eastern Conference Finals when he's hurt and he's not sitting there supporting his teammates when he was claiming that he was a leader.

That wasn't a good teammate. So... Yeah, people are speaking of him highly now. I don't think it's been that way all the time because Jalen Brown didn't get along with him in Boston. Marcus Smart had his run-ins with him in Boston, as did other teams.

That wasn't a good teammate. So... Yeah, people are speaking of him highly now. I don't think it's been that way all the time because Jalen Brown didn't get along with him in Boston. Marcus Smart had his run-ins with him in Boston, as did other teams.

On an unrelated note, by the way, Bill, he just surpassed Larry Bird as my favorite player in NBA history. That he butted heads with Eddie.

On an unrelated note, by the way, Bill, he just surpassed Larry Bird as my favorite player in NBA history. That he butted heads with Eddie.

Well, what about your guy, Jalen Brown? Now, I know it's hard to find another front court guy, but I mean, here's why I think Jalen Brown's worthy is I actually do think like the year before, you got to take that stuff into account, like reward winning from it. And I do that, you know, people don't agree with it. I think it factors into the MVP race.

Well, what about your guy, Jalen Brown? Now, I know it's hard to find another front court guy, but I mean, here's why I think Jalen Brown's worthy is I actually do think like the year before, you got to take that stuff into account, like reward winning from it. And I do that, you know, people don't agree with it. I think it factors into the MVP race.

How many times can you vote James Harden the MVP? When he falls flat in the postseason every year, then he comes back, he dominates the regular season. But so I see like rewarding Jalen Brown for what he did last year. I don't think Jalen Brown's played at an all-star level this year. Do you?

How many times can you vote James Harden the MVP? When he falls flat in the postseason every year, then he comes back, he dominates the regular season. But so I see like rewarding Jalen Brown for what he did last year. I don't think Jalen Brown's played at an all-star level this year. Do you?

Yeah, Eddie and I have done, like, the stats on this, and it's something I don't have in front of me. But if you go through, like, basketball reference and look at all the numbers amongst the eight rotation guys, meaning the five starters, plus Horford, plus Hauser, plus Peyton Pritchard, he's, like, dead last in a lot of the field goal percentages.

Yeah, Eddie and I have done, like, the stats on this, and it's something I don't have in front of me. But if you go through, like, basketball reference and look at all the numbers amongst the eight rotation guys, meaning the five starters, plus Horford, plus Hauser, plus Peyton Pritchard, he's, like, dead last in a lot of the field goal percentages.

He's dead last in, like, the three-point percentages. He's dead last in all the advanced analytics. It's been a tough year. You just hope that it flips once we get to the postseason.

He's dead last in, like, the three-point percentages. He's dead last in all the advanced analytics. It's been a tough year. You just hope that it flips once we get to the postseason.

That's why I'm agreeing with you.

That's why I'm agreeing with you.

And I feel good for Hero because that's been a mess down there. And he's on the trade market every year. Talk about Miami and the way they treat their stars. And all these guys are pointing, like Paul Pierce is pointing to the way they treat Jimmy Butler. How about the way they treated Tyler Hero? Every single year, he's on the trade market. And they're just putting him out.

And I feel good for Hero because that's been a mess down there. And he's on the trade market every year. Talk about Miami and the way they treat their stars. And all these guys are pointing, like Paul Pierce is pointing to the way they treat Jimmy Butler. How about the way they treated Tyler Hero? Every single year, he's on the trade market. And they're just putting him out.

We'll trade you for Dane. We'll trade you for Donovan Mitchell. We'll trade you for Kevin Durant. And I never viewed him as an all-star. And for him to make it, I think that's huge. So I feel good for him.

We'll trade you for Dane. We'll trade you for Donovan Mitchell. We'll trade you for Kevin Durant. And I never viewed him as an all-star. And for him to make it, I think that's huge. So I feel good for him.

And think about what that says about Bam. I don't even think anybody's looking at Bam and saying that he's a snob. He just hasn't been good this year at all.

And think about what that says about Bam. I don't even think anybody's looking at Bam and saying that he's a snob. He just hasn't been good this year at all.

But what's the point of keeping Kaminga if you're not going to play him or if you're going to yank him around like Steve Kerr's done? Or if you're not going to pay him. Yeah, or if you're not going to pay him. And then the flip side with Wiggins, though, is I wouldn't want Andrew Wiggins if I got to pay him $30 million this year. I got to pay him $30 next year. I got to pay him $30 after.

But what's the point of keeping Kaminga if you're not going to play him or if you're going to yank him around like Steve Kerr's done? Or if you're not going to pay him. Yeah, or if you're not going to pay him. And then the flip side with Wiggins, though, is I wouldn't want Andrew Wiggins if I got to pay him $30 million this year. I got to pay him $30 next year. I got to pay him $30 after.

After that, if he picks up the option, like, I'm not crazy about Andrew Wiggins because, to me, he just, like, you know, it's the same reputation he had, you know, when he came into the league. He just floats in and out of games outside of the 2022 title run. I mean, Steph doesn't have a number two. And that's the other thing is...

After that, if he picks up the option, like, I'm not crazy about Andrew Wiggins because, to me, he just, like, you know, it's the same reputation he had, you know, when he came into the league. He just floats in and out of games outside of the 2022 title run. I mean, Steph doesn't have a number two. And that's the other thing is...

I like I don't agree with what's going on, Bill, in Phoenix, but at least like I don't think it's going to work. At least they picked a direction. Like at least they know what they want to do.

I like I don't agree with what's going on, Bill, in Phoenix, but at least like I don't think it's going to work. At least they picked a direction. Like at least they know what they want to do.

Golden State's like, all right, well, we want to be in with Kaminga for the future, but we want to be you know, we want to compete right now with staff like either go all in or just blow the thing up and and start the rebuild. I don't agree with like there's no blow up, though.

Golden State's like, all right, well, we want to be in with Kaminga for the future, but we want to be you know, we want to compete right now with staff like either go all in or just blow the thing up and and start the rebuild. I don't agree with like there's no blow up, though.

Of course. Now, back to your other point before Eddie gave you some bad information.

Of course. Now, back to your other point before Eddie gave you some bad information.

That's not what I said. I told you where Devin was. No, I didn't. I said he was behind Derek White. I might as well have just said Bill's a massive moron.

That's not what I said. I told you where Devin was. No, I didn't. I said he was behind Derek White. I might as well have just said Bill's a massive moron.

I did not tell you that.

I did not tell you that.

There's no way. It's the same exact thing between you and Eddie. Sirius thinks you're more talented, obviously, but you would cost them more money. So they settle for Eddie because he's making a lot less money.

There's no way. It's the same exact thing between you and Eddie. Sirius thinks you're more talented, obviously, but you would cost them more money. So they settle for Eddie because he's making a lot less money.

Or is that just a, only because I don't think the playoffs, like I, no, I, it intrigues me a little bit, but not necessarily just because they're great. Just because who in the West is, is dominant. Like, do you, how much faith do you have in Oklahoma city? As good as they are. We've never seen them win more than one playoff series.

Or is that just a, only because I don't think the playoffs, like I, no, I, it intrigues me a little bit, but not necessarily just because they're great. Just because who in the West is, is dominant. Like, do you, how much faith do you have in Oklahoma city? As good as they are. We've never seen them win more than one playoff series.

Shane Gildas, Alexander's still like a young guy who as great as he is, hasn't really given us anything tremendous in the post season is checking to be healthy. Uh, Teams with size have beat them up. Dallas has their number. The Lakers, I think, aren't as talented. They match up well. So anything is possible. But I think it's just because of the weakness of the Western Conference.

Shane Gildas, Alexander's still like a young guy who as great as he is, hasn't really given us anything tremendous in the post season is checking to be healthy. Uh, Teams with size have beat them up. Dallas has their number. The Lakers, I think, aren't as talented. They match up well. So anything is possible. But I think it's just because of the weakness of the Western Conference.

I don't know what you guys think.

I don't know what you guys think.

And Bill, you touched on this with Goldsberry a couple of weeks ago. I don't like this topic of the West being better than the East. That is not the case this year. The Eastern Conference is better because the teams at the top are better. Boston, Cleveland, New York are three of the top four teams, I think, in the entire NBA. There's one in the Western Conference, OKC.

And Bill, you touched on this with Goldsberry a couple of weeks ago. I don't like this topic of the West being better than the East. That is not the case this year. The Eastern Conference is better because the teams at the top are better. Boston, Cleveland, New York are three of the top four teams, I think, in the entire NBA. There's one in the Western Conference, OKC.

So Cleveland, New York, Boston have to go through each other. OKC doesn't have to do that. East is tougher than the West.

So Cleveland, New York, Boston have to go through each other. OKC doesn't have to do that. East is tougher than the West.

Plus, you saw Yudoka the other day, knows all the weaknesses. I mean, they're attacking Jalen Brown, and he knows what Brown can do. He knows how to defend Tatum. And, you know, so that's another thing in that matchup. I agree with that.

Plus, you saw Yudoka the other day, knows all the weaknesses. I mean, they're attacking Jalen Brown, and he knows what Brown can do. He knows how to defend Tatum. And, you know, so that's another thing in that matchup. I agree with that.

I'm just, yeah, no, I agree. So we've concerned as far as the fatigue, I don't even want to hear that as an excuse because I was so anti, you know, all those guys go into the Olympics, then they had to do Abu Dhabi. So that's not like shocking to me that they're struggling, but I hated the fact they went to the Olympics. That's why I can't stand the Olympics.

I'm just, yeah, no, I agree. So we've concerned as far as the fatigue, I don't even want to hear that as an excuse because I was so anti, you know, all those guys go into the Olympics, then they had to do Abu Dhabi. So that's not like shocking to me that they're struggling, but I hated the fact they went to the Olympics. That's why I can't stand the Olympics.

And then, and I know you love him, Bill. I hate him because I think, you know, I don't care.

And then, and I know you love him, Bill. I hate him because I think, you know, I don't care.

Yeah, I care more about the Celtics or my NBA teams and Denver and Jokic doing well. But, no, it drives me nuts. Like, Philadelphia fans should be irate that Embiid's not playing.

Yeah, I care more about the Celtics or my NBA teams and Denver and Jokic doing well. But, no, it drives me nuts. Like, Philadelphia fans should be irate that Embiid's not playing.

Yeah, but the thing that calms me the most is, like, what other team can give you what Porzingis is doing right now? So, like, as bad as other things are going, like, I was at that game last night. Porzingis, you know, 34 points. I think he had 29 in the first half.

Yeah, but the thing that calms me the most is, like, what other team can give you what Porzingis is doing right now? So, like, as bad as other things are going, like, I was at that game last night. Porzingis, you know, 34 points. I think he had 29 in the first half.

If he's playing anything close to the level he's played at the last couple of weeks and stays healthy, to me, they're still easily the team to beat.

If he's playing anything close to the level he's played at the last couple of weeks and stays healthy, to me, they're still easily the team to beat.

I'm just making a point, though. Just say Philadelphia pushes Boston or Cleveland to like six games when typically it would be a sweep in the first round. Then you got to go play.

I'm just making a point, though. Just say Philadelphia pushes Boston or Cleveland to like six games when typically it would be a sweep in the first round. Then you got to go play.

Say, for example, they end up like, you know, playing the Celtics in the first round, like Boston plays Philadelphia. They got to go six games when typically that's four or five. Then they got to play New York. That goes six or seven. Then they got to play Cleveland six or seven. Meanwhile, Oklahoma City's cruising through the West. They're a little beat up.

Say, for example, they end up like, you know, playing the Celtics in the first round, like Boston plays Philadelphia. They got to go six games when typically that's four or five. Then they got to play New York. That goes six or seven. Then they got to play Cleveland six or seven. Meanwhile, Oklahoma City's cruising through the West. They're a little beat up.

They didn't have to go through the Pistons. Stop it. You know, through the Sixers.

They didn't have to go through the Pistons. Stop it. You know, through the Sixers.

And so were the Celtics, but then they had a hard road to get there.

And so were the Celtics, but then they had a hard road to get there.

Yeah, because it was dominant. It was more impressive that the Celtics in the 80s went to four consecutive finals than LeBron in the Eastern Conference going to eight in the 2000s.

Yeah, because it was dominant. It was more impressive that the Celtics in the 80s went to four consecutive finals than LeBron in the Eastern Conference going to eight in the 2000s.

No, I'm not. I mean, I essentially, you know what? Like I'm a little higher than I was on him a couple of weeks ago, but like everybody's making a big deal about Jamal Murray all of a sudden waking up. I mean, he's been better than he was at the beginning.

No, I'm not. I mean, I essentially, you know what? Like I'm a little higher than I was on him a couple of weeks ago, but like everybody's making a big deal about Jamal Murray all of a sudden waking up. I mean, he's been better than he was at the beginning.

Yeah, but he's also not like a high level number two. He's playing okay.

Yeah, but he's also not like a high level number two. He's playing okay.

He's playing better, but he still needs to be better. I mean, he's making a max contract.

He's playing better, but he still needs to be better. I mean, he's making a max contract.

I thought he was better during that run than Kyrie was during the run.

I thought he was better during that run than Kyrie was during the run.

Hopefully, but we haven't seen it for a couple of years.

Hopefully, but we haven't seen it for a couple of years.

He's been better, but he hasn't been great.

He's been better, but he hasn't been great.

No, they don't.

No, they don't.

Brown's actually probably better than Caldwell.

Brown's actually probably better than Caldwell.

They took away from the bench when they like people go like, oh, they got rid of. Now you're going back to the Christian Brown's better. Well, Christian Brown has to go in the starting lineup off their bench.

They took away from the bench when they like people go like, oh, they got rid of. Now you're going back to the Christian Brown's better. Well, Christian Brown has to go in the starting lineup off their bench.

patch together this team when they have so many final oh no that's actually denver's a big city my bad and and they're owned by like a very owned by guys married to the walmart family and somehow they can't get like a ninth or tenth man and they're trading three second round picks just to get rid of the contract they signed reggie jackson to so now they have no assets to get better so even if yokich was whining like anthony davis or lebron they couldn't do anything about it because they have nothing to trade so congratulations

patch together this team when they have so many final oh no that's actually denver's a big city my bad and and they're owned by like a very owned by guys married to the walmart family and somehow they can't get like a ninth or tenth man and they're trading three second round picks just to get rid of the contract they signed reggie jackson to so now they have no assets to get better so even if yokich was whining like anthony davis or lebron they couldn't do anything about it because they have nothing to trade so congratulations

Well, Bill, this is what I deal with every single day. And I say a lot of stupid things. And I still look like I'm rather intelligent because of things like this from Eddie. I mean, how many things did he get wrong there? Paul George, one of the best small forwards in the NBA. Yeah, like seven years ago. Joel Embiid, the best center in the NBA. Yeah, maybe if you took out what?

Well, Bill, this is what I deal with every single day. And I say a lot of stupid things. And I still look like I'm rather intelligent because of things like this from Eddie. I mean, how many things did he get wrong there? Paul George, one of the best small forwards in the NBA. Yeah, like seven years ago. Joel Embiid, the best center in the NBA. Yeah, maybe if you took out what?

Exactly. You mentioned just about everything. They can defend with the best teams in the NBA. Ty Lue to me.

Exactly. You mentioned just about everything. They can defend with the best teams in the NBA. Ty Lue to me.

You want to say like Eric Spolster is the best head coach? All right, well, Ty Lue's right on his heels. I think he's the second or third best head coach in the sport. So you're right there. I mean, a lot of us in the media are going to look like absolute morons if they make a deep run because we crushed them. But yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if they made a run either.

You want to say like Eric Spolster is the best head coach? All right, well, Ty Lue's right on his heels. I think he's the second or third best head coach in the sport. So you're right there. I mean, a lot of us in the media are going to look like absolute morons if they make a deep run because we crushed them. But yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if they made a run either.

I mean, you did see LeBron airball a free throw, I think, with the wall there. Right.

I mean, you did see LeBron airball a free throw, I think, with the wall there. Right.

Carl Anthony Towns, Joker. If you took out Wemba Nyama, if you took out Anthony Davis, maybe he's got a point. And Miami of a couple of years ago. Great point, Eddie. I think Cleveland, Boston and New York are shaking in their boots.

Carl Anthony Towns, Joker. If you took out Wemba Nyama, if you took out Anthony Davis, maybe he's got a point. And Miami of a couple of years ago. Great point, Eddie. I think Cleveland, Boston and New York are shaking in their boots.

He's trying to get out ahead of it, right? Because everybody's going to want to go there. So it's a smart decision by him if that's what he wants to do. If Eddie could still play, Eddie would be like... I'm here. I'll stand in the corner. Every single player in the league should want that.

He's trying to get out ahead of it, right? Because everybody's going to want to go there. So it's a smart decision by him if that's what he wants to do. If Eddie could still play, Eddie would be like... I'm here. I'll stand in the corner. Every single player in the league should want that.

All the broadcasters like us, we should want to go down there and cover them and just be their play-by-play guys because it's going to be fun for 15 years where you get to watch that every single night. So Like, it's smart by De'Aaron Fox. Now, the question is, is it smart by San Antonio to go out there and get him? I mean, is that, like, what is he, 27?

All the broadcasters like us, we should want to go down there and cover them and just be their play-by-play guys because it's going to be fun for 15 years where you get to watch that every single night. So Like, it's smart by De'Aaron Fox. Now, the question is, is it smart by San Antonio to go out there and get him? I mean, is that, like, what is he, 27?

So by the time Wembanyama's ready, you know, he's, and I think Wembanyama, I guess, is ready right now, but I guess the other pieces, because you need more than just Fox and Wembanyama. But, like, is he even the guy that you think fits in perfectly with him? I mean, he shoots in the low 30s in regards to three-point percentage. You know, he's not a particularly high-level defender.

So by the time Wembanyama's ready, you know, he's, and I think Wembanyama, I guess, is ready right now, but I guess the other pieces, because you need more than just Fox and Wembanyama. But, like, is he even the guy that you think fits in perfectly with him? I mean, he shoots in the low 30s in regards to three-point percentage. You know, he's not a particularly high-level defender.

He hasn't impacted winning in Sacramento. So I don't know if that's like my first choice, De'Aaron Fox.

He hasn't impacted winning in Sacramento. So I don't know if that's like my first choice, De'Aaron Fox.

Why would you leave once you get there? I mean, you're going to be winning. You're going to be playing on national television every day.

Why would you leave once you get there? I mean, you're going to be winning. You're going to be playing on national television every day.

I'll never get over that one. That's right at the beginning of their career. Fox is now going to play at Sacramento, lose a bunch of games, then get hooked up to Wimbanyama. Not if he chooses to go there. But you were, like, rattling off names, Bill. Like... Luke is a free agent. What, two years? All you hear about is Miami. Why is it only Miami that can get these guys? Oh, he culture.

I'll never get over that one. That's right at the beginning of their career. Fox is now going to play at Sacramento, lose a bunch of games, then get hooked up to Wimbanyama. Not if he chooses to go there. But you were, like, rattling off names, Bill. Like... Luke is a free agent. What, two years? All you hear about is Miami. Why is it only Miami that can get these guys? Oh, he culture.

He culture is red hot right now. But, you know, you hear that name linked to Miami. Why can't Luke be linked to playing with Wim Benyama?

He culture is red hot right now. But, you know, you hear that name linked to Miami. Why can't Luke be linked to playing with Wim Benyama?

And the best player on the team that year, at least in the finals.

And the best player on the team that year, at least in the finals.

I mean, we agree with that. That's fine. But he was still a top five player.

I mean, we agree with that. That's fine. But he was still a top five player.

Atlanta, they have Atlanta's pick, right? The upcoming draft as well. So that's going to get more value because Jalen Johnson's hurt. So that's even more valuable.

Atlanta, they have Atlanta's pick, right? The upcoming draft as well. So that's going to get more value because Jalen Johnson's hurt. So that's even more valuable.

They beat the Celtics twice in Boston. They beat Cleveland. They're good.

They beat the Celtics twice in Boston. They beat Cleveland. They're good.

In all fairness, even though he doesn't play, he still takes more free throws than DeAndre Ayton. I saw that stat. What is he at? 1.1?

In all fairness, even though he doesn't play, he still takes more free throws than DeAndre Ayton. I saw that stat. What is he at? 1.1?

The thing that ticked me off is Eddie and I talked about that on the show like two days ago and then Stat News came out with that stat the day after we talked about it. They stole it from us.

The thing that ticked me off is Eddie and I talked about that on the show like two days ago and then Stat News came out with that stat the day after we talked about it. They stole it from us.

81. The Celtics smartly drafted Ainge ahead of him. Thank you, Red Harbor.

81. The Celtics smartly drafted Ainge ahead of him. Thank you, Red Harbor.

They drafted Ainge. He made an all-star team. You never know.

They drafted Ainge. He made an all-star team. You never know.

Bill, when's the last time I would say this to you? When's the last time, Bill, that a guy that was seven feet tall was having issues with his feet, was having issues with his knees? All of a sudden, he ended up improving, right? And they're getting better in his 30s. Exactly. I can't think of one. And something Eddie and I agree on is I think Embiid loves to play, right?

Bill, when's the last time I would say this to you? When's the last time, Bill, that a guy that was seven feet tall was having issues with his feet, was having issues with his knees? All of a sudden, he ended up improving, right? And they're getting better in his 30s. Exactly. I can't think of one. And something Eddie and I agree on is I think Embiid loves to play, right?

Yeah, I mean, I think Eddie hit it on the head with the rebounding. They might have the worst center rotation. We've talked about this on the text. They might have the worst center rotation in the entire NBA. So they can't rebound. That's an issue.

Yeah, I mean, I think Eddie hit it on the head with the rebounding. They might have the worst center rotation. We've talked about this on the text. They might have the worst center rotation in the entire NBA. So they can't rebound. That's an issue.

Yeah, now you got Nick Richards. It's like getting Will Chamberlain in 1965. Exactly. I mean, he almost gave you a 2020 game the other day. So it's improved a little bit. But yeah, rebounding is an issue. I mean, they're one of the five worst defensive teams in the NBA.

Yeah, now you got Nick Richards. It's like getting Will Chamberlain in 1965. Exactly. I mean, he almost gave you a 2020 game the other day. So it's improved a little bit. But yeah, rebounding is an issue. I mean, they're one of the five worst defensive teams in the NBA.

And I, too, agree that it's fixable, again, because I don't have much confidence in the teams at the top of the Western Conference outside of Oklahoma City. I'm the moron that picked them to go to the finals this year. Eddie picked them to win the title like three straight years. Then he didn't pick them this year. I picked them to go to the finals and lose. So I think it's fixable this year.

And I, too, agree that it's fixable, again, because I don't have much confidence in the teams at the top of the Western Conference outside of Oklahoma City. I'm the moron that picked them to go to the finals this year. Eddie picked them to win the title like three straight years. Then he didn't pick them this year. I picked them to go to the finals and lose. So I think it's fixable this year.

But the issue I have is long term. You don't win this year, like, say, get Jimmy Butler and rectify it. It's not going to get better next year. It's not going to get the better the year after that. And you're stuck with what you have. So I think like this year, they could still make a pretty decent run. But after that, moving forward, they might be the biggest mess in the NBA.

But the issue I have is long term. You don't win this year, like, say, get Jimmy Butler and rectify it. It's not going to get better next year. It's not going to get the better the year after that. And you're stuck with what you have. So I think like this year, they could still make a pretty decent run. But after that, moving forward, they might be the biggest mess in the NBA.

And why did they make that trade for three different picks if they didn't have something lined up? Like they turned a 2031 pick that's going to be valuable. I thought when they made that deal, OK, well, they know they're going to turn it into Jimmy Butler or some other big piece. They've done that. They don't have anything lined up. No, I know.

And why did they make that trade for three different picks if they didn't have something lined up? Like they turned a 2031 pick that's going to be valuable. I thought when they made that deal, OK, well, they know they're going to turn it into Jimmy Butler or some other big piece. They've done that. They don't have anything lined up. No, I know.

But if they if they don't make a move, Bill, it's pretty weird.

But if they if they don't make a move, Bill, it's pretty weird.

Like, if you just wanted Zach Levine, you could trade, like, say, Bradley Beal and attach the 2031 pick. Now, he wouldn't go to Chicago, apparently, but the point is, like, that would get it done, perhaps, because that pick's so valuable.

Like, if you just wanted Zach Levine, you could trade, like, say, Bradley Beal and attach the 2031 pick. Now, he wouldn't go to Chicago, apparently, but the point is, like, that would get it done, perhaps, because that pick's so valuable.

And there's some stars that maybe don't love to play. We've had that debate with Jimmy Butler, who's like, I don't take the regular season seriously. Till after the All-Star game, he's always missing games. Like Eddie and I agree, he probably doesn't like playing the game that much.

And there's some stars that maybe don't love to play. We've had that debate with Jimmy Butler, who's like, I don't take the regular season seriously. Till after the All-Star game, he's always missing games. Like Eddie and I agree, he probably doesn't like playing the game that much.

Embiid, I think, likes playing, but does Embiid like putting in the work that is required to play to stay in shape in the offseason? And I think that's on him. So you can't criticize him for being hurt all the time and having a bad body, but you can get on his case for not putting the work in in the offseason in order to condition himself appropriately.

Embiid, I think, likes playing, but does Embiid like putting in the work that is required to play to stay in shape in the offseason? And I think that's on him. So you can't criticize him for being hurt all the time and having a bad body, but you can get on his case for not putting the work in in the offseason in order to condition himself appropriately.

Yeah. And the thing I don't understand is like the talent from like an individual perspective. I haven't seen a drop off. I just don't understand why it doesn't result in team success ever since he left Golden State. Right. He goes to Brooklyn like you saw him play the Celtics in the first round. He did get outplayed by Tatum in all four of those games. That was the second year.

Yeah. And the thing I don't understand is like the talent from like an individual perspective. I haven't seen a drop off. I just don't understand why it doesn't result in team success ever since he left Golden State. Right. He goes to Brooklyn like you saw him play the Celtics in the first round. He did get outplayed by Tatum in all four of those games. That was the second year.

Exactly. With his foot on the line and all that type of stuff. And he was like, they probably go on to maybe win a championship because they were facing Phoenix in the finals. They would beat Phoenix. And then he goes to he goes to Phoenix and they've been unable to get out of the second round. They get swept last year.

Exactly. With his foot on the line and all that type of stuff. And he was like, they probably go on to maybe win a championship because they were facing Phoenix in the finals. They would beat Phoenix. And then he goes to he goes to Phoenix and they've been unable to get out of the second round. They get swept last year.

So it's like weird that it hasn't translated into team success, even though they've, you know, he's played with talented players. I will add something just like an individual story, because Eddie and I crushed him when he went to Golden State. I know you were a little bit easier on him. And I like go back and forth with him on Twitter.

So it's like weird that it hasn't translated into team success, even though they've, you know, he's played with talented players. I will add something just like an individual story, because Eddie and I crushed him when he went to Golden State. I know you were a little bit easier on him. And I like go back and forth with him on Twitter.

And I've been critical of aspects of like his career and his decision making, even though he's an amazing talent. We interviewed him last year and I've had a lot of stars who I'll be critical of. They won't even look at me like Durant comes up and jokes around about it. We laugh about some of the stuff that I criticized for him in the past.

And I've been critical of aspects of like his career and his decision making, even though he's an amazing talent. We interviewed him last year and I've had a lot of stars who I'll be critical of. They won't even look at me like Durant comes up and jokes around about it. We laugh about some of the stuff that I criticized for him in the past.

Answers every question, jokes around, gives you a high five, says hello whenever you see him. So I just love the way the guy handles himself.

Answers every question, jokes around, gives you a high five, says hello whenever you see him. So I just love the way the guy handles himself.

Exactly. And the Vince Carter one really bothers me. Are they going to give Jimmy Butler a jersey retirement? Are they going to put a statue up of Jimmy Butler?

Exactly. And the Vince Carter one really bothers me. Are they going to give Jimmy Butler a jersey retirement? Are they going to put a statue up of Jimmy Butler?

The Vince Carter thing, I couldn't believe. Paul George is upset because he never got a tribute video. I don't know if you saw that. He came out.

The Vince Carter thing, I couldn't believe. Paul George is upset because he never got a tribute video. I don't know if you saw that. He came out.

He tried to force a trade out of Indiana for a year. Exactly. And like you treat the organization that way, you leave them high and dry and you want to be like honored. I just don't understand. Like there's a reward for handling yourself the right way in the city. And then you'll get the honor. If you leave in a wrong way, then you shouldn't get it.

He tried to force a trade out of Indiana for a year. Exactly. And like you treat the organization that way, you leave them high and dry and you want to be like honored. I just don't understand. Like there's a reward for handling yourself the right way in the city. And then you'll get the honor. If you leave in a wrong way, then you shouldn't get it.

So you're telling me I'll like you in 20 years? In 20 years, I'll like you then?

So you're telling me I'll like you in 20 years? In 20 years, I'll like you then?

It's like you can quit on a team and then you can get honored. I don't understand that.

It's like you can quit on a team and then you can get honored. I don't understand that.

But 100 percent, because people only count stuff like you go back in the 1960s. All they do is count 1970s. They just look at basketball reference. They don't look at the context behind anything. So, yeah, it's going to matter maybe to me and you how we won a championship in 50 years. They're just going to count it on basketball reference with absolutely no clue.

But 100 percent, because people only count stuff like you go back in the 1960s. All they do is count 1970s. They just look at basketball reference. They don't look at the context behind anything. So, yeah, it's going to matter maybe to me and you how we won a championship in 50 years. They're just going to count it on basketball reference with absolutely no clue.

Unlike Devin Booker, you're not going to complain about being double teamed. I start to lift the pot here.

Unlike Devin Booker, you're not going to complain about being double teamed. I start to lift the pot here.

um i don't know stuff got weird in cleveland and the other thing is like i always look at it if you replace durant with that like i mean even go back to another golden state great if you put rick barry on that golden state team they're definitely winning the title if you replace durant with barry and that's what bothers me like even rick barry like in his 60s or rick barry maybe rick barry even in his 60s maybe even then but definitely like during the prime of his career ever

um i don't know stuff got weird in cleveland and the other thing is like i always look at it if you replace durant with that like i mean even go back to another golden state great if you put rick barry on that golden state team they're definitely winning the title if you replace durant with barry and that's what bothers me like even rick barry like in his 60s or rick barry maybe rick barry even in his 60s maybe even then but definitely like during the prime of his career ever

But it's just hard. Like if you took Jalen Brown, for example, and put him there, they're definitely winning as well. And he's not anywhere close to the big shots, too.

But it's just hard. Like if you took Jalen Brown, for example, and put him there, they're definitely winning as well. And he's not anywhere close to the big shots, too.

And you view Durant completely different? Westbrook doesn't have to deal with any of the BS that he's dealt with his entire career?

And you view Durant completely different? Westbrook doesn't have to deal with any of the BS that he's dealt with his entire career?

No, of course.

No, of course.

I got to hand it to you. You never gave up. I said he should retire earlier this year. And I'm just, I just want to say that I'm glad that Westbrook found a teammate that was smart enough to understand how to utilize him.

I got to hand it to you. You never gave up. I said he should retire earlier this year. And I'm just, I just want to say that I'm glad that Westbrook found a teammate that was smart enough to understand how to utilize him.

Yeah. And so you're right, Eddie. And LeBron should have been intelligent enough to understand that, that he needs the ball. Westbrook needs the ball. And that was LeBron's mistake because he wanted to play.

Yeah. And so you're right, Eddie. And LeBron should have been intelligent enough to understand that, that he needs the ball. Westbrook needs the ball. And that was LeBron's mistake because he wanted to play.

I do. Eddie likes we've had this debate because Eddie likes the Knicks more than the Cavs. I like the Cavs more than the Knicks. And, you know, I love what we here's what we do agree, though, on Cleveland is we both love that Donovan Mitchell's taken a step back. and involved his teammates a little bit more because I thought that was a major issue in Utah.

I do. Eddie likes we've had this debate because Eddie likes the Knicks more than the Cavs. I like the Cavs more than the Knicks. And, you know, I love what we here's what we do agree, though, on Cleveland is we both love that Donovan Mitchell's taken a step back. and involved his teammates a little bit more because I thought that was a major issue in Utah.

I thought it was a major issue the first couple of years in Cleveland. The fact that his numbers have dropped a little bit shouldn't be an indication of his play getting worse. It's the same exact thing Boston did last year. You look at everybody in that rotation, took a step back for the better of the team.

I thought it was a major issue the first couple of years in Cleveland. The fact that his numbers have dropped a little bit shouldn't be an indication of his play getting worse. It's the same exact thing Boston did last year. You look at everybody in that rotation, took a step back for the better of the team.

sacrifice. That's what Donovan Mitchell's doing this year. I absolutely love it. And I take them seriously as a title contender. And the other thing that I love is like people wanted to break up Mitchell and Garland. And there was even some thought, Bill, that Garland wanted out. Remember last offseason?

sacrifice. That's what Donovan Mitchell's doing this year. I absolutely love it. And I take them seriously as a title contender. And the other thing that I love is like people wanted to break up Mitchell and Garland. And there was even some thought, Bill, that Garland wanted out. Remember last offseason?

Of course. And then same thing with Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. Can they play together? They keep them together. And I love continuity. I know you're big on this as well. Like the longer teams stay together, the easier. Like that's why Philadelphia like this year, I didn't believe in him anyway, because it's three guys being thrown together that you knew weren't going to play a ton.

Of course. And then same thing with Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. Can they play together? They keep them together. And I love continuity. I know you're big on this as well. Like the longer teams stay together, the easier. Like that's why Philadelphia like this year, I didn't believe in him anyway, because it's three guys being thrown together that you knew weren't going to play a ton.

Like continuity means something. And now they're at the point where they know each other inside and out. So I take him as a legitimate threat. I have him number two behind Boston in the East.

Like continuity means something. And now they're at the point where they know each other inside and out. So I take him as a legitimate threat. I have him number two behind Boston in the East.

Their wings are a concern, and I guess how they deal with size is a little bit of a concern at the guard position, which is why Boston matches up well against them with Holiday and White and Tierman Brown.

Their wings are a concern, and I guess how they deal with size is a little bit of a concern at the guard position, which is why Boston matches up well against them with Holiday and White and Tierman Brown.

Yeah, I was talking about this the other day with Ryan McDonough, the former GM of the Suns, and he called it the worst contract in the sport. So, you know, he's thinking along the lines of you that nobody would deal for the guy. And I was like talking about it on the show with Sam Mitchell. He was filling in for Eddie here today. And we brought up like Jared Allen.

Yeah, I was talking about this the other day with Ryan McDonough, the former GM of the Suns, and he called it the worst contract in the sport. So, you know, he's thinking along the lines of you that nobody would deal for the guy. And I was like talking about it on the show with Sam Mitchell. He was filling in for Eddie here today. And we brought up like Jared Allen.

No, no, I wasn't going to. I was going to. I'll make a Terry Rozier joke. Would you bet on Donovan Mitchell or Jalen Brunson? If you're Terry Rozier, would you put money on Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell in a series? Because don't forget, Brunson's beat him twice, outplayed him twice. Once when Mitchell was in Utah, once when he was in Cleveland.

No, no, I wasn't going to. I was going to. I'll make a Terry Rozier joke. Would you bet on Donovan Mitchell or Jalen Brunson? If you're Terry Rozier, would you put money on Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell in a series? Because don't forget, Brunson's beat him twice, outplayed him twice. Once when Mitchell was in Utah, once when he was in Cleveland.

Well, don't you? I mean, they killed Becky Hammond for saying the same exact thing. So be careful, Bill.

Well, don't you? I mean, they killed Becky Hammond for saying the same exact thing. So be careful, Bill.

The Celtics play their guys a lot. The Knicks play their guys a lot.

The Celtics play their guys a lot. The Knicks play their guys a lot.

I mean, you're in position to win a championship right now in Cleveland. You think Cleveland's doing anything with Joel Embiid if it was like for Jared Allen? No, they're going to stay with Jared Allen, even though he's nowhere as talented as Joel Embiid.

I mean, you're in position to win a championship right now in Cleveland. You think Cleveland's doing anything with Joel Embiid if it was like for Jared Allen? No, they're going to stay with Jared Allen, even though he's nowhere as talented as Joel Embiid.

We interviewed David Griffin and Alvin Gentry the night they got that pick. We were there at the draft lottery. Those guys were as happy as could be, and it might end up like it already cost Alvin Gentry his job, and it might cost David Griffin his job. So they were ecstatic about it at the time, but now they might lose their job as a result to him. Gentry already did.

We interviewed David Griffin and Alvin Gentry the night they got that pick. We were there at the draft lottery. Those guys were as happy as could be, and it might end up like it already cost Alvin Gentry his job, and it might cost David Griffin his job. So they were ecstatic about it at the time, but now they might lose their job as a result to him. Gentry already did.

So, yeah, I mean, I think they're in a spot where who wants to be paying this guy 60 plus million dollars in 2029 when he's already got bad knees four years prior to that.

So, yeah, I mean, I think they're in a spot where who wants to be paying this guy 60 plus million dollars in 2029 when he's already got bad knees four years prior to that.

Yeah. That was my issue with like, uh, honestly with Jamal Murray, it's like, did he get paid? Did he win the championship and then take his foot off the gas? Like to the credit, to the credit of Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, like, those guys have busted their rear ends. Like Jalen Brown, like again, you said he got maybe too big, but the intention was good. So Jalen Brown like wins a championship.

Yeah. That was my issue with like, uh, honestly with Jamal Murray, it's like, did he get paid? Did he win the championship and then take his foot off the gas? Like to the credit, to the credit of Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, like, those guys have busted their rear ends. Like Jalen Brown, like again, you said he got maybe too big, but the intention was good. So Jalen Brown like wins a championship.

He gets paid like the year before Jalen Brown got paid. He didn't say I get paid and, you know, I'm just fine now. Like Jalen Brown got the biggest contract in NBA history and then came back and had the best season of his career, won a finals MVP. Like that's credit to guys that do that because I don't think everybody can.

He gets paid like the year before Jalen Brown got paid. He didn't say I get paid and, you know, I'm just fine now. Like Jalen Brown got the biggest contract in NBA history and then came back and had the best season of his career, won a finals MVP. Like that's credit to guys that do that because I don't think everybody can.

So, and that's, I agree with Eddie's point. I think that's a really good point that he carried that mindset that he had all summer into the season and it affected his game. Can somebody tell me somebody that actually benefited from the Olympics this year?

So, and that's, I agree with Eddie's point. I think that's a really good point that he carried that mindset that he had all summer into the season and it affected his game. Can somebody tell me somebody that actually benefited from the Olympics this year?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know if we would. You almost got your butt kicked this year with the, you know, the legends.

I don't know if we would. You almost got your butt kicked this year with the, you know, the legends.

And Jokic almost beat you by yourself.

And Jokic almost beat you by yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I cheered for Serbia.

I cheered for Serbia.

It wasn't like we turned you down. No, we're not. Well, you did last weekend. He asked us last week. You said no.

It wasn't like we turned you down. No, we're not. Well, you did last weekend. He asked us last week. You said no.

I know.

I know.

Four. Yeah. Four to seven. Uh, Eastern time, Monday through Friday. Uh, and this, I think this is the longest we ever talked to each other for free. Typically we just talk to each other.

Four. Yeah. Four to seven. Uh, Eastern time, Monday through Friday. Uh, and this, I think this is the longest we ever talked to each other for free. Typically we just talk to each other.

For $60 million plus? I mean, didn't the Lakers turn down Bill Walton in the 80s?

For $60 million plus? I mean, didn't the Lakers turn down Bill Walton in the 80s?

And you're right. There is always a sucker. And Phoenix probably would be the sucker the way that they're going out.

And you're right. There is always a sucker. And Phoenix probably would be the sucker the way that they're going out.

Yeah. And I actually, Bill, agree with Eddie on Norm Powell. I thought he should have made it. And, you know, listen, Eddie says a lot of crazy things that are absolutely ridiculous. Something I said at the beginning of the season that I owe an apology is to the Clippers because I killed them, as did a lot of other people. It's worked out perfectly.

Yeah. And I actually, Bill, agree with Eddie on Norm Powell. I thought he should have made it. And, you know, listen, Eddie says a lot of crazy things that are absolutely ridiculous. Something I said at the beginning of the season that I owe an apology is to the Clippers because I killed them, as did a lot of other people. It's worked out perfectly.

And Norm Powell, like at the beginning of the season, said, you know, that it's addition by subtraction. Well, he's taken advantage of it. I think he should be an all-star. And then on the Devin Booker front, like, you know, Eddie, I think, broke it down fairly right there.

And Norm Powell, like at the beginning of the season, said, you know, that it's addition by subtraction. Well, he's taken advantage of it. I think he should be an all-star. And then on the Devin Booker front, like, you know, Eddie, I think, broke it down fairly right there.

He probably didn't deserve to be there, but it is kind of a major knock on his legacy because this is a guy I feel like is talented enough where he should be there every single year. There's really no excuse not to make all-star teams. And now it's two of the last three years where he hasn't made it. And you look at a guy like Eddie and myself and you fight about Jason Tatum, say what you want.

He probably didn't deserve to be there, but it is kind of a major knock on his legacy because this is a guy I feel like is talented enough where he should be there every single year. There's really no excuse not to make all-star teams. And now it's two of the last three years where he hasn't made it. And you look at a guy like Eddie and myself and you fight about Jason Tatum, say what you want.

Not only does he make the all-star team every single year, he also makes first team all NBA every year. Then you have Devin Booker who should be maybe in the same category as him or slightly behind. And he's missing out on stuff like this. I mean, that's a bad look. I think for Devin, Devin Booker's resume, you know,

Not only does he make the all-star team every single year, he also makes first team all NBA every year. Then you have Devin Booker who should be maybe in the same category as him or slightly behind. And he's missing out on stuff like this. I mean, that's a bad look. I think for Devin, Devin Booker's resume, you know,

Let me just say this about Kyrie real quick, Eddie, is like, don't forget who's voting for this stuff as well. How many times did Kyrie give coaches throughout the course of his career a hard time, bail on teams, get coaches fired? So I wouldn't be shocked if, you know, some coaches look at that and they go, oh, well, Steve Nash gets fired because of the attitude issue.

Let me just say this about Kyrie real quick, Eddie, is like, don't forget who's voting for this stuff as well. How many times did Kyrie give coaches throughout the course of his career a hard time, bail on teams, get coaches fired? So I wouldn't be shocked if, you know, some coaches look at that and they go, oh, well, Steve Nash gets fired because of the attitude issue.

He gives Brad Stevens a really difficult time, you know, Ty Lue, just the different coaches that he's had run-ins with. I think that kind of factors into some of this stuff as well.

He gives Brad Stevens a really difficult time, you know, Ty Lue, just the different coaches that he's had run-ins with. I think that kind of factors into some of this stuff as well.

Yeah, I wouldn't say that was all in the media. I mean, Jalen Brown gets along with him now. He didn't do that when he was in Boston. I thought one of the worst things that I saw from a teammate, and I think the worst thing on his resume, is at game seven of the Eastern Conference Finals when he's hurt and he's not sitting there supporting his teammates when he was claiming that he was a leader.

That wasn't a good teammate. So... Yeah, people are speaking of him highly now. I don't think it's been that way all the time because Jalen Brown didn't get along with him in Boston. Marcus Smart had his run-ins with him in Boston, as did other teams.

On an unrelated note, by the way, Bill, he just surpassed Larry Bird as my favorite player in NBA history. That he butted heads with Eddie.

Well, what about your guy, Jalen Brown? Now, I know it's hard to find another front court guy, but I mean, here's why I think Jalen Brown's worthy is I actually do think like the year before, you got to take that stuff into account, like reward winning from it. And I do that, you know, people don't agree with it. I think it factors into the MVP race.

How many times can you vote James Harden the MVP? When he falls flat in the postseason every year, then he comes back, he dominates the regular season. But so I see like rewarding Jalen Brown for what he did last year. I don't think Jalen Brown's played at an all-star level this year. Do you?

Yeah, Eddie and I have done, like, the stats on this, and it's something I don't have in front of me. But if you go through, like, basketball reference and look at all the numbers amongst the eight rotation guys, meaning the five starters, plus Horford, plus Hauser, plus Peyton Pritchard, he's, like, dead last in a lot of the field goal percentages.

He's dead last in, like, the three-point percentages. He's dead last in all the advanced analytics. It's been a tough year. You just hope that it flips once we get to the postseason.

That's why I'm agreeing with you.

And I feel good for Hero because that's been a mess down there. And he's on the trade market every year. Talk about Miami and the way they treat their stars. And all these guys are pointing, like Paul Pierce is pointing to the way they treat Jimmy Butler. How about the way they treated Tyler Hero? Every single year, he's on the trade market. And they're just putting him out.

We'll trade you for Dane. We'll trade you for Donovan Mitchell. We'll trade you for Kevin Durant. And I never viewed him as an all-star. And for him to make it, I think that's huge. So I feel good for him.

And think about what that says about Bam. I don't even think anybody's looking at Bam and saying that he's a snob. He just hasn't been good this year at all.

But what's the point of keeping Kaminga if you're not going to play him or if you're going to yank him around like Steve Kerr's done? Or if you're not going to pay him. Yeah, or if you're not going to pay him. And then the flip side with Wiggins, though, is I wouldn't want Andrew Wiggins if I got to pay him $30 million this year. I got to pay him $30 next year. I got to pay him $30 after.

After that, if he picks up the option, like, I'm not crazy about Andrew Wiggins because, to me, he just, like, you know, it's the same reputation he had, you know, when he came into the league. He just floats in and out of games outside of the 2022 title run. I mean, Steph doesn't have a number two. And that's the other thing is...

I like I don't agree with what's going on, Bill, in Phoenix, but at least like I don't think it's going to work. At least they picked a direction. Like at least they know what they want to do.

Golden State's like, all right, well, we want to be in with Kaminga for the future, but we want to be you know, we want to compete right now with staff like either go all in or just blow the thing up and and start the rebuild. I don't agree with like there's no blow up, though.

Of course. Now, back to your other point before Eddie gave you some bad information.

That's not what I said. I told you where Devin was. No, I didn't. I said he was behind Derek White. I might as well have just said Bill's a massive moron.

I did not tell you that.

There's no way. It's the same exact thing between you and Eddie. Sirius thinks you're more talented, obviously, but you would cost them more money. So they settle for Eddie because he's making a lot less money.

Or is that just a, only because I don't think the playoffs, like I, no, I, it intrigues me a little bit, but not necessarily just because they're great. Just because who in the West is, is dominant. Like, do you, how much faith do you have in Oklahoma city? As good as they are. We've never seen them win more than one playoff series.

Shane Gildas, Alexander's still like a young guy who as great as he is, hasn't really given us anything tremendous in the post season is checking to be healthy. Uh, Teams with size have beat them up. Dallas has their number. The Lakers, I think, aren't as talented. They match up well. So anything is possible. But I think it's just because of the weakness of the Western Conference.

I don't know what you guys think.

And Bill, you touched on this with Goldsberry a couple of weeks ago. I don't like this topic of the West being better than the East. That is not the case this year. The Eastern Conference is better because the teams at the top are better. Boston, Cleveland, New York are three of the top four teams, I think, in the entire NBA. There's one in the Western Conference, OKC.

So Cleveland, New York, Boston have to go through each other. OKC doesn't have to do that. East is tougher than the West.

Plus, you saw Yudoka the other day, knows all the weaknesses. I mean, they're attacking Jalen Brown, and he knows what Brown can do. He knows how to defend Tatum. And, you know, so that's another thing in that matchup. I agree with that.

I'm just, yeah, no, I agree. So we've concerned as far as the fatigue, I don't even want to hear that as an excuse because I was so anti, you know, all those guys go into the Olympics, then they had to do Abu Dhabi. So that's not like shocking to me that they're struggling, but I hated the fact they went to the Olympics. That's why I can't stand the Olympics.

And then, and I know you love him, Bill. I hate him because I think, you know, I don't care.

Yeah, I care more about the Celtics or my NBA teams and Denver and Jokic doing well. But, no, it drives me nuts. Like, Philadelphia fans should be irate that Embiid's not playing.

Yeah, but the thing that calms me the most is, like, what other team can give you what Porzingis is doing right now? So, like, as bad as other things are going, like, I was at that game last night. Porzingis, you know, 34 points. I think he had 29 in the first half.

If he's playing anything close to the level he's played at the last couple of weeks and stays healthy, to me, they're still easily the team to beat.

I'm just making a point, though. Just say Philadelphia pushes Boston or Cleveland to like six games when typically it would be a sweep in the first round. Then you got to go play.

Say, for example, they end up like, you know, playing the Celtics in the first round, like Boston plays Philadelphia. They got to go six games when typically that's four or five. Then they got to play New York. That goes six or seven. Then they got to play Cleveland six or seven. Meanwhile, Oklahoma City's cruising through the West. They're a little beat up.

They didn't have to go through the Pistons. Stop it. You know, through the Sixers.

And so were the Celtics, but then they had a hard road to get there.

Yeah, because it was dominant. It was more impressive that the Celtics in the 80s went to four consecutive finals than LeBron in the Eastern Conference going to eight in the 2000s.

No, I'm not. I mean, I essentially, you know what? Like I'm a little higher than I was on him a couple of weeks ago, but like everybody's making a big deal about Jamal Murray all of a sudden waking up. I mean, he's been better than he was at the beginning.

Yeah, but he's also not like a high level number two. He's playing okay.

He's playing better, but he still needs to be better. I mean, he's making a max contract.

I thought he was better during that run than Kyrie was during the run.

Hopefully, but we haven't seen it for a couple of years.

He's been better, but he hasn't been great.

No, they don't.

Brown's actually probably better than Caldwell.

They took away from the bench when they like people go like, oh, they got rid of. Now you're going back to the Christian Brown's better. Well, Christian Brown has to go in the starting lineup off their bench.

patch together this team when they have so many final oh no that's actually denver's a big city my bad and and they're owned by like a very owned by guys married to the walmart family and somehow they can't get like a ninth or tenth man and they're trading three second round picks just to get rid of the contract they signed reggie jackson to so now they have no assets to get better so even if yokich was whining like anthony davis or lebron they couldn't do anything about it because they have nothing to trade so congratulations

Well, Bill, this is what I deal with every single day. And I say a lot of stupid things. And I still look like I'm rather intelligent because of things like this from Eddie. I mean, how many things did he get wrong there? Paul George, one of the best small forwards in the NBA. Yeah, like seven years ago. Joel Embiid, the best center in the NBA. Yeah, maybe if you took out what?

Exactly. You mentioned just about everything. They can defend with the best teams in the NBA. Ty Lue to me.

You want to say like Eric Spolster is the best head coach? All right, well, Ty Lue's right on his heels. I think he's the second or third best head coach in the sport. So you're right there. I mean, a lot of us in the media are going to look like absolute morons if they make a deep run because we crushed them. But yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if they made a run either.

I mean, you did see LeBron airball a free throw, I think, with the wall there. Right.

Carl Anthony Towns, Joker. If you took out Wemba Nyama, if you took out Anthony Davis, maybe he's got a point. And Miami of a couple of years ago. Great point, Eddie. I think Cleveland, Boston and New York are shaking in their boots.

He's trying to get out ahead of it, right? Because everybody's going to want to go there. So it's a smart decision by him if that's what he wants to do. If Eddie could still play, Eddie would be like... I'm here. I'll stand in the corner. Every single player in the league should want that.

All the broadcasters like us, we should want to go down there and cover them and just be their play-by-play guys because it's going to be fun for 15 years where you get to watch that every single night. So Like, it's smart by De'Aaron Fox. Now, the question is, is it smart by San Antonio to go out there and get him? I mean, is that, like, what is he, 27?

So by the time Wembanyama's ready, you know, he's, and I think Wembanyama, I guess, is ready right now, but I guess the other pieces, because you need more than just Fox and Wembanyama. But, like, is he even the guy that you think fits in perfectly with him? I mean, he shoots in the low 30s in regards to three-point percentage. You know, he's not a particularly high-level defender.

He hasn't impacted winning in Sacramento. So I don't know if that's like my first choice, De'Aaron Fox.

Why would you leave once you get there? I mean, you're going to be winning. You're going to be playing on national television every day.

I'll never get over that one. That's right at the beginning of their career. Fox is now going to play at Sacramento, lose a bunch of games, then get hooked up to Wimbanyama. Not if he chooses to go there. But you were, like, rattling off names, Bill. Like... Luke is a free agent. What, two years? All you hear about is Miami. Why is it only Miami that can get these guys? Oh, he culture.

He culture is red hot right now. But, you know, you hear that name linked to Miami. Why can't Luke be linked to playing with Wim Benyama?

And the best player on the team that year, at least in the finals.

I mean, we agree with that. That's fine. But he was still a top five player.

Atlanta, they have Atlanta's pick, right? The upcoming draft as well. So that's going to get more value because Jalen Johnson's hurt. So that's even more valuable.

They beat the Celtics twice in Boston. They beat Cleveland. They're good.

In all fairness, even though he doesn't play, he still takes more free throws than DeAndre Ayton. I saw that stat. What is he at? 1.1?

The thing that ticked me off is Eddie and I talked about that on the show like two days ago and then Stat News came out with that stat the day after we talked about it. They stole it from us.

81. The Celtics smartly drafted Ainge ahead of him. Thank you, Red Harbor.

They drafted Ainge. He made an all-star team. You never know.

Bill, when's the last time I would say this to you? When's the last time, Bill, that a guy that was seven feet tall was having issues with his feet, was having issues with his knees? All of a sudden, he ended up improving, right? And they're getting better in his 30s. Exactly. I can't think of one. And something Eddie and I agree on is I think Embiid loves to play, right?

Yeah, I mean, I think Eddie hit it on the head with the rebounding. They might have the worst center rotation. We've talked about this on the text. They might have the worst center rotation in the entire NBA. So they can't rebound. That's an issue.

Yeah, now you got Nick Richards. It's like getting Will Chamberlain in 1965. Exactly. I mean, he almost gave you a 2020 game the other day. So it's improved a little bit. But yeah, rebounding is an issue. I mean, they're one of the five worst defensive teams in the NBA.

And I, too, agree that it's fixable, again, because I don't have much confidence in the teams at the top of the Western Conference outside of Oklahoma City. I'm the moron that picked them to go to the finals this year. Eddie picked them to win the title like three straight years. Then he didn't pick them this year. I picked them to go to the finals and lose. So I think it's fixable this year.

But the issue I have is long term. You don't win this year, like, say, get Jimmy Butler and rectify it. It's not going to get better next year. It's not going to get the better the year after that. And you're stuck with what you have. So I think like this year, they could still make a pretty decent run. But after that, moving forward, they might be the biggest mess in the NBA.

And why did they make that trade for three different picks if they didn't have something lined up? Like they turned a 2031 pick that's going to be valuable. I thought when they made that deal, OK, well, they know they're going to turn it into Jimmy Butler or some other big piece. They've done that. They don't have anything lined up. No, I know.

But if they if they don't make a move, Bill, it's pretty weird.

Like, if you just wanted Zach Levine, you could trade, like, say, Bradley Beal and attach the 2031 pick. Now, he wouldn't go to Chicago, apparently, but the point is, like, that would get it done, perhaps, because that pick's so valuable.

And there's some stars that maybe don't love to play. We've had that debate with Jimmy Butler, who's like, I don't take the regular season seriously. Till after the All-Star game, he's always missing games. Like Eddie and I agree, he probably doesn't like playing the game that much.

Embiid, I think, likes playing, but does Embiid like putting in the work that is required to play to stay in shape in the offseason? And I think that's on him. So you can't criticize him for being hurt all the time and having a bad body, but you can get on his case for not putting the work in in the offseason in order to condition himself appropriately.

Yeah. And the thing I don't understand is like the talent from like an individual perspective. I haven't seen a drop off. I just don't understand why it doesn't result in team success ever since he left Golden State. Right. He goes to Brooklyn like you saw him play the Celtics in the first round. He did get outplayed by Tatum in all four of those games. That was the second year.

Exactly. With his foot on the line and all that type of stuff. And he was like, they probably go on to maybe win a championship because they were facing Phoenix in the finals. They would beat Phoenix. And then he goes to he goes to Phoenix and they've been unable to get out of the second round. They get swept last year.

So it's like weird that it hasn't translated into team success, even though they've, you know, he's played with talented players. I will add something just like an individual story, because Eddie and I crushed him when he went to Golden State. I know you were a little bit easier on him. And I like go back and forth with him on Twitter.

And I've been critical of aspects of like his career and his decision making, even though he's an amazing talent. We interviewed him last year and I've had a lot of stars who I'll be critical of. They won't even look at me like Durant comes up and jokes around about it. We laugh about some of the stuff that I criticized for him in the past.

Answers every question, jokes around, gives you a high five, says hello whenever you see him. So I just love the way the guy handles himself.

Exactly. And the Vince Carter one really bothers me. Are they going to give Jimmy Butler a jersey retirement? Are they going to put a statue up of Jimmy Butler?

The Vince Carter thing, I couldn't believe. Paul George is upset because he never got a tribute video. I don't know if you saw that. He came out.

He tried to force a trade out of Indiana for a year. Exactly. And like you treat the organization that way, you leave them high and dry and you want to be like honored. I just don't understand. Like there's a reward for handling yourself the right way in the city. And then you'll get the honor. If you leave in a wrong way, then you shouldn't get it.

So you're telling me I'll like you in 20 years? In 20 years, I'll like you then?

It's like you can quit on a team and then you can get honored. I don't understand that.

But 100 percent, because people only count stuff like you go back in the 1960s. All they do is count 1970s. They just look at basketball reference. They don't look at the context behind anything. So, yeah, it's going to matter maybe to me and you how we won a championship in 50 years. They're just going to count it on basketball reference with absolutely no clue.

Unlike Devin Booker, you're not going to complain about being double teamed. I start to lift the pot here.

um i don't know stuff got weird in cleveland and the other thing is like i always look at it if you replace durant with that like i mean even go back to another golden state great if you put rick barry on that golden state team they're definitely winning the title if you replace durant with barry and that's what bothers me like even rick barry like in his 60s or rick barry maybe rick barry even in his 60s maybe even then but definitely like during the prime of his career ever

But it's just hard. Like if you took Jalen Brown, for example, and put him there, they're definitely winning as well. And he's not anywhere close to the big shots, too.

And you view Durant completely different? Westbrook doesn't have to deal with any of the BS that he's dealt with his entire career?

No, of course.

I got to hand it to you. You never gave up. I said he should retire earlier this year. And I'm just, I just want to say that I'm glad that Westbrook found a teammate that was smart enough to understand how to utilize him.

Yeah. And so you're right, Eddie. And LeBron should have been intelligent enough to understand that, that he needs the ball. Westbrook needs the ball. And that was LeBron's mistake because he wanted to play.

I do. Eddie likes we've had this debate because Eddie likes the Knicks more than the Cavs. I like the Cavs more than the Knicks. And, you know, I love what we here's what we do agree, though, on Cleveland is we both love that Donovan Mitchell's taken a step back. and involved his teammates a little bit more because I thought that was a major issue in Utah.

I thought it was a major issue the first couple of years in Cleveland. The fact that his numbers have dropped a little bit shouldn't be an indication of his play getting worse. It's the same exact thing Boston did last year. You look at everybody in that rotation, took a step back for the better of the team.

sacrifice. That's what Donovan Mitchell's doing this year. I absolutely love it. And I take them seriously as a title contender. And the other thing that I love is like people wanted to break up Mitchell and Garland. And there was even some thought, Bill, that Garland wanted out. Remember last offseason?

Of course. And then same thing with Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. Can they play together? They keep them together. And I love continuity. I know you're big on this as well. Like the longer teams stay together, the easier. Like that's why Philadelphia like this year, I didn't believe in him anyway, because it's three guys being thrown together that you knew weren't going to play a ton.

Like continuity means something. And now they're at the point where they know each other inside and out. So I take him as a legitimate threat. I have him number two behind Boston in the East.

Their wings are a concern, and I guess how they deal with size is a little bit of a concern at the guard position, which is why Boston matches up well against them with Holiday and White and Tierman Brown.

Yeah, I was talking about this the other day with Ryan McDonough, the former GM of the Suns, and he called it the worst contract in the sport. So, you know, he's thinking along the lines of you that nobody would deal for the guy. And I was like talking about it on the show with Sam Mitchell. He was filling in for Eddie here today. And we brought up like Jared Allen.

No, no, I wasn't going to. I was going to. I'll make a Terry Rozier joke. Would you bet on Donovan Mitchell or Jalen Brunson? If you're Terry Rozier, would you put money on Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell in a series? Because don't forget, Brunson's beat him twice, outplayed him twice. Once when Mitchell was in Utah, once when he was in Cleveland.

Well, don't you? I mean, they killed Becky Hammond for saying the same exact thing. So be careful, Bill.

The Celtics play their guys a lot. The Knicks play their guys a lot.

I mean, you're in position to win a championship right now in Cleveland. You think Cleveland's doing anything with Joel Embiid if it was like for Jared Allen? No, they're going to stay with Jared Allen, even though he's nowhere as talented as Joel Embiid.

We interviewed David Griffin and Alvin Gentry the night they got that pick. We were there at the draft lottery. Those guys were as happy as could be, and it might end up like it already cost Alvin Gentry his job, and it might cost David Griffin his job. So they were ecstatic about it at the time, but now they might lose their job as a result to him. Gentry already did.

So, yeah, I mean, I think they're in a spot where who wants to be paying this guy 60 plus million dollars in 2029 when he's already got bad knees four years prior to that.

Yeah. That was my issue with like, uh, honestly with Jamal Murray, it's like, did he get paid? Did he win the championship and then take his foot off the gas? Like to the credit, to the credit of Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, like, those guys have busted their rear ends. Like Jalen Brown, like again, you said he got maybe too big, but the intention was good. So Jalen Brown like wins a championship.

He gets paid like the year before Jalen Brown got paid. He didn't say I get paid and, you know, I'm just fine now. Like Jalen Brown got the biggest contract in NBA history and then came back and had the best season of his career, won a finals MVP. Like that's credit to guys that do that because I don't think everybody can.

So, and that's, I agree with Eddie's point. I think that's a really good point that he carried that mindset that he had all summer into the season and it affected his game. Can somebody tell me somebody that actually benefited from the Olympics this year?

Yeah.

I don't know if we would. You almost got your butt kicked this year with the, you know, the legends.

And Jokic almost beat you by yourself.

Yeah.

I cheered for Serbia.

It wasn't like we turned you down. No, we're not. Well, you did last weekend. He asked us last week. You said no.

I know.

Four. Yeah. Four to seven. Uh, Eastern time, Monday through Friday. Uh, and this, I think this is the longest we ever talked to each other for free. Typically we just talk to each other.

For $60 million plus? I mean, didn't the Lakers turn down Bill Walton in the 80s?

And you're right. There is always a sucker. And Phoenix probably would be the sucker the way that they're going out.

Yeah. And I actually, Bill, agree with Eddie on Norm Powell. I thought he should have made it. And, you know, listen, Eddie says a lot of crazy things that are absolutely ridiculous. Something I said at the beginning of the season that I owe an apology is to the Clippers because I killed them, as did a lot of other people. It's worked out perfectly.

And Norm Powell, like at the beginning of the season, said, you know, that it's addition by subtraction. Well, he's taken advantage of it. I think he should be an all-star. And then on the Devin Booker front, like, you know, Eddie, I think, broke it down fairly right there.

He probably didn't deserve to be there, but it is kind of a major knock on his legacy because this is a guy I feel like is talented enough where he should be there every single year. There's really no excuse not to make all-star teams. And now it's two of the last three years where he hasn't made it. And you look at a guy like Eddie and myself and you fight about Jason Tatum, say what you want.

Not only does he make the all-star team every single year, he also makes first team all NBA every year. Then you have Devin Booker who should be maybe in the same category as him or slightly behind. And he's missing out on stuff like this. I mean, that's a bad look. I think for Devin, Devin Booker's resume, you know,

Let me just say this about Kyrie real quick, Eddie, is like, don't forget who's voting for this stuff as well. How many times did Kyrie give coaches throughout the course of his career a hard time, bail on teams, get coaches fired? So I wouldn't be shocked if, you know, some coaches look at that and they go, oh, well, Steve Nash gets fired because of the attitude issue.

He gives Brad Stevens a really difficult time, you know, Ty Lue, just the different coaches that he's had run-ins with. I think that kind of factors into some of this stuff as well.