Kate Gawlik

Thank you so much for having us. Yeah, thanks for having us.

I think when you're getting the message that it is natural for you to just grow into this role, especially as a new mom, and you're not perfectly happy all the time, I think there's a lot of guilt and shame that goes along with that. And I think even if you do have close friends, I think that can be really hard to talk about. And I think it's really, really hard to ask for help.

So that's what I've heard as a reporter talking to parents for 10, 15 years on this beat. And so the barrier to asking for that help and support I think leads to more loneliness for some people.

And I think the other part of it and part of why making mom friends can be challenging for some people is, and I remember thinking this the first time I went to a mom group arranged around the birth month and year of my older daughter.

Yeah, I remember looking around and thinking just because we all had babies the same month doesn't mean we had anything in common. And so it is not always the easiest to find parent friends who share your values, who you feel like you can be fully honest with without being judged.

There have been very well-publicized cases of parents who let their kids free-range more and the cops get called. Stick around.

I think one of the big reasons is that American culture can be quite unfriendly to parents. I want to say every two or three months, I see a viral post about babies on airplanes. Yes. And how they should be cordoned off or never leave the house or...

Exactly. And so I think that there is that attitude that is, you know, I think depending on where you go, it can feel quite pervasive. you know, we don't think about sort of the built environment necessarily as a reason for parents to feel lonely. But I think all the time about walkability and children being able to be independent in their communities and when that's able to happen.

If you spend all of your extra time as a mother driving your kids places, that's keeping you isolated more.

That is correct. The sociological term is intensive parenting. The derisive term is helicopter parenting. But I think that there's a cultural expectation that you never let your kids out of your sight ever.

And there have been very well-publicized cases of parents who let their kids free-range more, and the cops get called because you let your 10-year-old walk home from the park, which is something I did all the time. But I understand why, for lots of reasons, parents don't feel safe doing that for their kids anymore.

And the more that you feel like, oh, I have to hover, I have to be on my kids for an ever longer period of time, I think that is tough.

I don't think they feel as responsible for the emotional thermometer of the family. And I do think part of the reason that when mothers have negative feelings, they feel them so acutely is because they feel this additional sense of shame about the feeling. Because they're like, oh, I'm a mom now. I should be some other kid.

category of person who doesn't feel as bad as i used to feel yeah that's yeah i remember this woman i interviewed for my book her name is angela and she said i thought i was going to become the amazing angela like the best version of myself and like i'm still the same version of myself for good or bad sorry you made me make me reconsider some things i'm like oh

No, I think I'm the big change for me is I think I am a lot more patient. I have found reserves of patients that I did not know existed within me, but I didn't have a lobotomy. I just, you know, I'm still a version of the same person. And so you'll still struggle with whatever it was you struggled with before you had kids.

But I do feel like there is this extra layer of guilt and shame that a lot of people feel because they expect that they're not going to feel those bad feelings anymore. And that's not realistic.