Kate Hawkesby

And two, we've got this weird diabetes scrap involving race.

Anyway, David Seymour is the Associate Minister of Health and he's with us.

Morning.

Hey, Mike.

Have they got some hard data around flu jabs for kids?

In other words, the kids who don't get jabbed, are they not jabbed because of the cost or because of an attitude or what?

There's probably a combination.

So this is something that stacks up in terms of cost benefit and Pharmac are going to do it.

Okay, having said that, let me counter it by saying this.

Flu isn't measles, so you get a jab for the measles, I get the measles.

Flu changes each season.

Are you actually achieving a lot by jabbing for flu that's different next year?

Well, of course, every year as it cycles around the globe, the industry tries to anticipate what strains are going to come to the part of the world that's going to be in winter next.

So there is a bit of an art and a science to it.

But the question is the result.

And the result is that if you accept all of that science, then yes, it does actually reduce the amount of people that get the flu and the amount of harm it creates.

Yeah, the reason I ask that question is Pharmac's short of dough, as you're well aware, and I wonder if there aren't bigger fish to fry, be that as it may.

This diabetes thing with the Maori access to it, I mean, what the hell's going on there?

How did this become a thing?

But so far as the diabetes, what's happening is there's a proposal that's open to consultation until next Thursday.