Kate Shaw

I think that's such an important kind of callback to the first part of our conversation. So I think we have this tendency to say, Trump says he's going to end birthright citizenship. Will the Supreme Court let him? And I don't think that's an unimportant question.

And I hope and actually do kind of trust that even this Supreme Court would say, no, of course, the president can't unilaterally end birthright citizenship if he wants to pursue a constitutional amendment. Article 5 does allow the amending of the Constitution. He could push for that. That is the only way to end birthright citizenship. But a lot can happen before you get there, right?

And I hope and actually do kind of trust that even this Supreme Court would say, no, of course, the president can't unilaterally end birthright citizenship if he wants to pursue a constitutional amendment. Article 5 does allow the amending of the Constitution. He could push for that. That is the only way to end birthright citizenship. But a lot can happen before you get there, right?

And a lot does happen inside the executive branch. The president has lawyers in the White House. The Department of Justice has lawyers in the Office of Legal Counsel and the entire Department of Justice. And those lawyers swear an oath to uphold the Constitution just like every federal official does. And there are certain constitutional questions that are hard or close.

And a lot does happen inside the executive branch. The president has lawyers in the White House. The Department of Justice has lawyers in the Office of Legal Counsel and the entire Department of Justice. And those lawyers swear an oath to uphold the Constitution just like every federal official does. And there are certain constitutional questions that are hard or close.

And I don't think birthright citizenship is one of them. And so Whatever new powers, whatever new sword and shield the Supreme Court has given the president, none of those erase the obligations of executive branch lawyers to the Constitution. I think that's a really important point. I agree. I think that's actually a good place to end it.

And I don't think birthright citizenship is one of them. And so Whatever new powers, whatever new sword and shield the Supreme Court has given the president, none of those erase the obligations of executive branch lawyers to the Constitution. I think that's a really important point. I agree. I think that's actually a good place to end it.

As always, what are three books or articles you would recommend for our audience?

As always, what are three books or articles you would recommend for our audience?

Karen is my colleague at Penn, and it is a beautiful article. Even if you don't think you enjoy reading law review articles or you would enjoy reading law review articles, maybe try this one. It might be an exception. Jillian Musker, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. This episode of The Ezra Klein Show was produced by Elias Isquith.

Karen is my colleague at Penn, and it is a beautiful article. Even if you don't think you enjoy reading law review articles or you would enjoy reading law review articles, maybe try this one. It might be an exception. Jillian Musker, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. This episode of The Ezra Klein Show was produced by Elias Isquith.

Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones with Afim Shapiro and Amin Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show's production team also includes Roland Hu, Kristen Lynn, and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Christina Samulowski and Shannon Busta.

Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones with Afim Shapiro and Amin Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show's production team also includes Roland Hu, Kristen Lynn, and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Christina Samulowski and Shannon Busta.

The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose Strasser.

The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose Strasser.