Katherine Ellis
Appearances
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
Wait, what? You gain the ability to telepathically communicate with other people with Alzheimer's?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
Dan describes how individuals in Denise's memory care facility seemed to know that Dan was able to telepathically engage with them. People he had never met started coming up to him, somehow recognizing he was able to receive what they were thinking.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
That's so amazing. Wow. So this is wild. So nowadays you'll just randomly be somewhere and hear someone with Alzheimer's coming in. How does that work? Do you ever think like, who the heck is this?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
I know. It really seems like once the floodgate is open, it's totally accessible. Was there a moment of telepathy you experienced with Denise that you found to be extraordinarily profound?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
Well, I love that story so much, Dan. I want to ask you, what is your advice for someone who's looking to tap into the side of themselves that would be open to this kind of communication?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
Do you ever experience other people coming into your head who are not Alzheimer's? It's like people who are nonverbal in other ways?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
Exactly. Some of the people who wrote in even said they were afraid they were going crazy, but that they were absolutely certain that something real was happening. That their loved one was somehow communicating with them, beyond words. And one name kept popping up as someone who had been through it and really put language to the experience. Dan Gerke. Okay, so tell me about Dan.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
That's important. I'm glad we're bringing up the role of the caregiver because I think it's, unless you've sort of experienced this, it's a little bit overlooked on how emotionally, mentally, physically draining it can be. What would be a big piece of advice that you have for someone who may be has a recent diagnosis and you're maybe tasked as being the caregiver.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
I really love that approach. I think so many of us have become isolated and afraid to ask for help, but... More often than not, people will surprise you by showing up. It seems like despite the incredible hardship of Denise's illness, you came out of it with some truly beautiful insights about life and connection.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
Dan wrote a book called Unforgettable Unbelievable about his wife, Denise, who was diagnosed with Alzheimer's at just 56 years old. As her disease progressed and she lost the ability to speak, Dan says he began communicating with her telepathically. And now he's become a kind of sounding board for others who are going through similar things and don't know where to turn.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
Well, thank you so much, Dan. This has been incredible.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
I wanted to end the episode by mentioning that if you're caring for a loved one with Alzheimer's or dementia, please remember you don't have to go through it alone. Support groups can be life-changing. They offer a space to share, connect, and feel understood by people who truly get it.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
Whether you're looking for emotional support, practical advice, or simply a reminder that you're not alone, help is out there. You can visit the Alzheimer's Association at alz.org to find local and virtual support groups, as well as resources for caregivers. The National Institute on Aging also has excellent information and tools at nia.nih.gov. I'll be sure to link both in the show notes.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
Okay, I'd love to hear a little bit about the moment that you and your wife Denise found out she had Alzheimer's disease.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
As Denise's disease progressed, she gradually lost her ability to speak. But what happened next was something Dan never expected. A new kind of communication began to emerge, one that didn't rely on words at all. Dan reports that once Denise became nonverbal, he began to read her mind and communicate with her telepathically. At first, he was shocked.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
Wow. Okay. So what was your reaction?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
So how do you reconcile with that? What do you think is going on in the brain that, you know, if she can't speak and if she's unable to remember things and communicate with you, like why is she still able to communicate with you telepathically in a coherent way?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
Well, what really caught my attention is that we're getting a surprising number of emails about Alzheimer's and dementia. People are saying that they're experiencing thought sharing or telepathy with someone who has dementia or late stage Alzheimer's.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
Yeah, I've heard from some other people in emails a similar theory that they feel like their loved one is slowly almost slipping into the next realm or the other side, and that their physical body is still just kind of here, but that that's not really... A true representation of them anymore.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
So Catherine, at this point in the story, what were you thinking? Well, I really couldn't stop thinking about why Dan was able to communicate with Denise telepathically. I mean, there are so many people with Alzheimer's out there.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
In 2023, an estimated 6.7 million Americans were living with the disease, and the number is expected to more than double by 2060.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
If I had to guess, it would probably be a little bit more than 20.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 6: The Mind's Back Door: Alzheimer's and Telepathy
Right. Like, are we getting a glimpse of higher consciousness with this population? And is there some part of ourselves that remains even if memory and language fade away? Or are we all just ignoring something that's always been open and available to us? So, Catherine, let's go back to your interview with Dan. Dan, why do you think you were able to do this with Denise?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
Right. Yeah. I appreciate what you're saying about why scientists have come to the conclusions they've come to. I mean, it's certainly easy to explain this with the ideomotor and sort of just leave it at that.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
But what's great is that there are also scientists who are digging deeper than that conclusion and are interested in exploring the fact that this form of communication is in fact authored by the non-speaker and valid. I think that's interesting what you said that the ideomotor effect could really only account for one aspect of cueing. Like it couldn't be five different things at once.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
All right, Katherine, take it away. Becca, thank you so much for doing this and being on the podcast. I would love it if you could just briefly introduce yourself and give us a little bit of your background.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
So keeping that in mind, what would be a good way to test this to eliminate that sort of that thought?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
Can you explain what you mean by a message passing test? What is that exactly?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
So Becca hears the telepathy tapes, and she becomes obsessed with reconciling the unbelievable claims she was hearing with the concrete world. And she really, really dove into the research in many ways. It was like she was doing an extensive fact-checking on Kai and the families.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
Yeah, I am interested in knowing what is told to the non-speaker before starting that test. Do they know that they're supposed to be typing out what they're shown?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
Yeah. Yeah. I would love to know that information. And then I think it's also a lot of people with autism, whether they're verbal or not, have issues with regulation. And I think being in these settings where, number one, you can feel that the energy of the person doing the test is sort of this gotcha or I'm going to prove you wrong thing. is never an environment where someone can thrive.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
I mean, I always compare it to like, you know, when I used to play sports, it's like playing at your opponent's home is always more difficult because you have a crowd full of people discouraging you and not wanting you to succeed. And then when you play At your home, it's a crowd of people who support you and believe in you. And that really affects you and changes the way you perform.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
And then to be in a body that you don't feel connected with, that's easy to be dysregulated. You're in a strange environment. You're with people you don't know. The only person you know is your communicator who you trust. I can see why that might not be the best way to test somebody on something like this.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
So I would love to see tests done where instead of trying to have them conform to the way we function, maybe we go and meet them where they are. and have them explain it to us. Because after spending time with this population, it is so obvious. I mean, anybody who spends, spend a whole day with someone who's nonverbal and you will not walk out of it going, ah, there's nobody in there.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
They don't know what's going on. It's so obvious that they're in there, that they understand everything happening. You know, just my personal experience watching people spell from, you know, we've started shooting the documentary and I've seen people
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
some of the non-speakers who were mentioned in season one, and I watch them move their eyes to the next letter that they want to tap on the letter board. Now, how is that someone else telling them what to do? I see them motor planning. Oh, I want to go for the I. I'm going to look to the upper right. Now I want the A, and I'm looking to the left down before my finger even goes there.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
that could be something that's studied. Like, can we track their eyes? Can we, you know, I do think there hasn't been enough taken into consideration. Absolutely.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
And that's what's so cool. And a little bit what frustrates me is that why can't we be more comfortable with not fully understanding something instead of just quickly slapping on something that, like you said, feels comfortable or is an easy conclusion to draw?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
Because to me, the study of science and math, you know, when someone is interested in that, I always think, oh, my gosh, there's so much I don't know. And there's so much about the world that I want to learn and explore. And I think that's how science came to be in general. So why as scientists or...
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
I think your first email was like, I listened to the telepathy tapes and I couldn't stop thinking that I need to prove it wrong. Or your whole goal was... To prove that Akil was not using telepathy to type, to communicate, to spell, to communicate. But did you start out not believing or how did the telepathy tapes impact you when you first heard them?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
Are we not more open to a possibility instead of just quickly dismissing it or not wanting to look into it?
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
Well, thank you for explaining all the research you did and your findings and everything like that. And, you know, hopefully there will be more studies. I think there are in the pipeline to help better understand spelling to communicate and potentially telepathy. I think there are people out there who are open to researching more.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
They're just maybe not the people in charge of, you know, getting it in schools or having it widely accepted. But it seems like we're probably on the right path, which is encouraging.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
Absolutely. Okay, well, thank you so much, Becca. This is so great.
The Telepathy Tapes
Talk Tracks Ep 8: The Skeptic Who Couldn’t Debunk The Telepathy Tapes
Yeah, I've seen it.