Katherine Mangu-Ward

And some of that was about the big tech companies that had become dominant

trying to lock in their place.

And I think you're quite right that there is and will be more of a similar phenomenon with some of the bigger AI players.

But at the same time, what we've seen is there's actually a lot of churn in big tech.

One of the reasons that debate was happening around Facebook at that time, where we were saying, should we treat Facebook as a public utility, is because it seemed like they were the biggest game in town and no one would ever break Facebook's hold.

And Facebook is certainly still big and certainly still around, but there are several major competitors.

And if you look at the market cap or the market, you know, the share of users that these different companies have, it changes rapidly.

So that does seem to me like market discipline is working to some extent there, like they're not permanent monopolies.

Well, that actually for sure is my argument.

I think that is the argument of kind of dynamists or pro-market folks, especially in media and communications, is you can almost always tell a story, and it's a pretty plausible one, about how any amount of regulation is in a market where there will be competitors, and it's an attractive market,

is so likely to serve to lock in existing players.

And then they will capitalize on that.

I mean, for me, libertarianism is directional, right?

So I would, like, if we get to a place where you and I have to come back on the Chuck Todd cast and earnestly debate, like the driver's license removal bill of 2037 is- You're like, we're winning.

I am delighted if we get to that place, but we are so far from there right now.

Do you have a real ID for this, you know, airplane that I paid for a ticket?

Yeah.

So I think, you know, I totally understand, you know, that people would say, well,

I'm interested in knowing where where you think the limits are.

And that's a perfectly legitimate conversation to have.