Katy Milkman

And I think that can be a fresh start too. That's positive.

It's a fantastic question. I'm going to give you a somewhat frustrating answer. It frustrates me. I don't feel like academic research has wrapped its arms around identity the way I would like it to because I think it is unquestionably so important, right? The labels. we put on ourselves obviously matter, but I feel like we don't know nearly as much as we should.

It's a fantastic question. I'm going to give you a somewhat frustrating answer. It frustrates me. I don't feel like academic research has wrapped its arms around identity the way I would like it to because I think it is unquestionably so important, right? The labels. we put on ourselves obviously matter, but I feel like we don't know nearly as much as we should.

It's one of the things I'm most interested to study. It's your next book. Maybe, maybe. We know a little. One of the things I think is most relevant to the way I think about identity is mindset, which is it's different than identity, but a mindset can come with or can be triggered by an identity.

It's one of the things I'm most interested to study. It's your next book. Maybe, maybe. We know a little. One of the things I think is most relevant to the way I think about identity is mindset, which is it's different than identity, but a mindset can come with or can be triggered by an identity.

And one of the barriers we haven't talked about yet to change that I think is really important is whether you believe you can change. And identity and mindset are a big part of that. So we know a lot about mindset from work, for instance, by Carol Dweck at Stanford, who's done this incredible... Growth mindset versus fixed mindset. Exactly. And that's sort of an identity, right?

And one of the barriers we haven't talked about yet to change that I think is really important is whether you believe you can change. And identity and mindset are a big part of that. So we know a lot about mindset from work, for instance, by Carol Dweck at Stanford, who's done this incredible... Growth mindset versus fixed mindset. Exactly. And that's sort of an identity, right?

You identify with being someone who can grow or you identify as someone who is X, right? Like, you know, I'm only this smart. I'm only this capable. So in a sense, there's an identity that comes with believing you can grow or an identity that comes with believing you can't. There's also wonderful research on the placebo effect and how that extends beyond just medicine, right?

You identify with being someone who can grow or you identify as someone who is X, right? Like, you know, I'm only this smart. I'm only this capable. So in a sense, there's an identity that comes with believing you can grow or an identity that comes with believing you can't. There's also wonderful research on the placebo effect and how that extends beyond just medicine, right?

We know about it in medicine that, like, if you believe a sugar pill is going to make you healthier, you actually... experience physiological benefits. But there's some really interesting research showing it's beyond, you know, we think of it in this medical context, and that's where it was first studied.

We know about it in medicine that, like, if you believe a sugar pill is going to make you healthier, you actually... experience physiological benefits. But there's some really interesting research showing it's beyond, you know, we think of it in this medical context, and that's where it was first studied.

Actually, I learned from a children's book, like Ben Franklin studied this, and I don't know if you know mesmerizing. Interesting. That term comes from Dr. Mesmer, who was the original sort of charlatan in France who was giving people fake medicine. Interesting. Anyway, and Ben Franklin figured it all out.

Actually, I learned from a children's book, like Ben Franklin studied this, and I don't know if you know mesmerizing. Interesting. That term comes from Dr. Mesmer, who was the original sort of charlatan in France who was giving people fake medicine. Interesting. Anyway, and Ben Franklin figured it all out.

It does, it was like, and it's also a wonderful children's book. So I wish I'd known that before I wrote my book, it would have been in there. Anyway, there's a lot more though than just the medical component to placebo effects, right? When we believe that we will achieve something that also can improve our achievement, right? When we believe we're gonna get an outcome.

It does, it was like, and it's also a wonderful children's book. So I wish I'd known that before I wrote my book, it would have been in there. Anyway, there's a lot more though than just the medical component to placebo effects, right? When we believe that we will achieve something that also can improve our achievement, right? When we believe we're gonna get an outcome.

One of my favorite studies that I describe in the book that I think is sort of related to mindset and identity is work by Ali Crum, who's a psychologist at Stanford. She did this really interesting work with Ellen Langer of Harvard, where they randomly assigned housekeepers to one of two groups.

One of my favorite studies that I describe in the book that I think is sort of related to mindset and identity is work by Ali Crum, who's a psychologist at Stanford. She did this really interesting work with Ellen Langer of Harvard, where they randomly assigned housekeepers to one of two groups.

And those housekeepers were either told every day when you go and do your job in a hotel, you are getting exercise at the level that's recommended by the CDC. So you're getting a great workout when you do your job.

And those housekeepers were either told every day when you go and do your job in a hotel, you are getting exercise at the level that's recommended by the CDC. So you're getting a great workout when you do your job.

Right. I don't know if 1,000 calories is the definition. You're getting a great workout. Oh, good workout, yeah. Maybe it's more like 300. Okay, okay. Just not to get too overboard. And then another group just wasn't told that information. And the question actually was, are there differences in the outcomes those two groups experience a month later in terms of health?