Kelly Weinersmith
Appearances
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
How we might do all the nitty gritty of daily living. Can human adult bodies survive on the surface of Mars? Can we safely have babies on the surface of Mars?
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
Well, space is huge, and Mars is relatively close. It has a lot of the things that we would need to be able to grow plants and keep humans alive. It's still a harsh environment, but, you know, the moon, for example, is very poor in carbon. And as carbon-based life forms, we need that, and Mars has a lot more of that. Mars also has plentiful water that's not too hard to get, right?
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
And it's just sort of easier to get to than a lot of other places in our solar system.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
You know, I think the honest answer is we don't really know. And it's worth noting that space radiation is different than the kinds of radiation we typically encounter on Earth. So we don't have a lot of good Earth-based data on this. But the astronauts in the space station are pretty much not experiencing it, or they're experiencing much less of it, and they're not out there for very long.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
So when you're en route to Mars, which is a trip that takes a minimum of six months, given current technology, you have some shielding from your spacecraft, but probably not quite enough. And then when you get to Mars, you're still exposed to a lot of it because Mars doesn't have a strong planet-wide magnetosphere like we've got on Earth.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
And the atmosphere is only 1% as thick as what we have on Earth. So most of that radiation hits the surface. And most of the proposals that we've seen involve burying our habitats under a few meters of the dirt on Mars to try to protect us from that radiation. So none of those beautiful glass habitats that maybe you've seen in artist renditions. We're living like mole people underground. Yeah. OK.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
Initially, we're going to send a lot of it for sure. Like when we're doing the first sorties, which is when people, you know, go stay for a little while and then come right back and don't plan on spending the rest of their lives there. That will probably mostly be things like freeze dried food. But when we're going to have settlements there, we're going to need to be able to grow food there.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
And that's going to be difficult because the regoliths, so like the dirt on the surface, has perchlorates in it. These are endocrine disrupting hormones which mess with metabolism in adults and fetal development for children. And we know that when you grow plants in the presence of perchlorates, the plants pull the perchlorates into the tissues.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
So we're going to have to make sure that we're getting those perchlorates out of the dirt and out of the water. And maybe we'll need to do hydroponics where you're not using that dirt at all. And it's going to be hard to bring protein also. So most of the proposals we've seen state that you can't bring like chickens or cows. They're just they're too big. They're too messy.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
Yeah, at the moment, there's not a lot of good research. There's not a lot of good money. We talked about how, you know, hips lose bone density. I wouldn't want to be the first woman on Mars hoping my hips are going to hold out when labor kicks in. Oh, gosh. There's just a lot of other things, like rat moms who have been sent to space during part of their pregnancy.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
When they come down, there were kinds of labor contractions that they had to do twice as often, as if any woman would want to be in labor any longer than they already have to be.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
It's just lots of reasons to be scared that the space environment will be bad.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
For a successful space settlement would require that you have essentially families living on the surface of Mars and that those people are able to have careers that, you know, give them the money that they need to sustain themselves and that they're also able to have children. And those children can successfully grow up and have their own children. That's Kelly Wienersmith.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
So I'm a little concerned about bones in babies because if you're living underground, you're not getting sunlight. Sunlight is important for producing vitamin D and vitamin D is important for making calcium and putting that into your bones.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
So if you've got like women who are living underground and you're not taking care to make sure they're getting enough vitamin D and they're turning that into calcium, well, they're trying to maintain their skeleton, which is degrading under less than Earth's gravity and trying to make the skeleton of a baby.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
And so you can imagine that babies would be born with skeletons that are already a little bit more fragile, a little bit less tough than we would like them to be. Oof. And then we don't understand what development under 40% of Earth's gravity is going to do to those bodies.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
And in particular, we don't know if they'll ever be able to return to Earth if they decide that they don't want to stay at Mars. So you might be having babies that are forced to stay in this environment that is hostile. And at some point, we might decide we want to abandon, but they wouldn't be able to.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
So I'm an ecologist by training, and in particular, I'm a parasitologist, so I study parasites. So I'm the kind of person who is even in love with the weird, creepy things you find inside of the more charismatic megafauna. So I was already pretty crazy about this planet and all the cool biodiversity we have here. Me too.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
But reading about, like, if you go to Mars, you'll never be able to walk outside without a spacesuit on and, like, feel the breeze on your skin. I just, I really appreciate this planet that we evolved on and we're so well adapted to. I'm staying here.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
How we might do all the nitty-gritty of daily living. Can human adult bodies survive on the surface of Mars? Can we safely have babies on the surface of Mars? How do you govern these communities?
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
Well, space is huge, and Mars is relatively close. It has a lot of the things that we would need to be able to grow plants and keep humans alive. It's still a harsh environment, but, you know, the moon, for example, is very poor in carbon. And as carbon-based life forms, we need that, and Mars has a lot more of that. Mars also has plentiful water that's not too hard to get, right?
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
And it's just sort of easier to get to than a lot of other places in our solar system.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
You know, I think the honest answer is we don't really know. And it's worth noting that space radiation is different than the kinds of radiation we typically encounter on Earth. So we don't have a lot of good Earth-based data on this. But the astronauts in the space station are pretty much not experiencing it, or they're experiencing much less of it, and they're not out there for very long.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
So when you're en route to Mars, which is a trip that takes a minimum of six months, given current technology, you have some shielding from your spacecraft, but probably not quite enough. And then when you get to Mars, you're still exposed to a lot of it because Mars doesn't have a strong planet-wide magnetosphere like we've got on Earth.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
And the atmosphere is only 1% as thick as what we have on Earth. So most of that radiation hits the surface. And most of the proposals that we've seen involve burying our habitats under a few meters of the dirt on Mars to try to protect us from that radiation. So none of those beautiful glass habitats that maybe you've seen in artist renditions. We're living like mole people underground. Yeah. OK.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
Are we going to send it all? Initially, we're going to send a lot of it for sure. Like when we're doing the first sorties, which is when people, you know, go stay for a little while and then come right back and don't plan on spending the rest of their lives there. That will probably mostly be things like freeze dried food.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
But when we're going to have settlements there, we're going to need to be able to grow food there. And that's going to be difficult because the regoliths, so like the dirt on the surface, has perchlorates in it. These are endocrine disrupting hormones which mess with metabolism in adults and fetal development for children.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
And we know that when you grow plants in the presence of perchlorates, the plants pull the perchlorates into the tissues. So we're going to have to make sure that we're getting those perchlorates out of the dirt and out of the water. And maybe we'll need to do hydroponics where you're not using that dirt at all. And it's going to be hard to bring protein also.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
Yeah, at the moment, there's not a lot of good research. There's not a lot of good money. We talked about how, you know, hips lose bone density. I wouldn't want to be the first woman on Mars hoping my hips are going to hold out when labor kicks in. Oh, gosh. There's just a lot of other things, like rat moms who have been sent to space during part of their pregnancy.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
When they come down, there were kinds of labor contractions that they had to do twice as often, as if any woman would want to be in labor any longer than they already have to be. Yeah. It's just lots of reasons to be scared that the space environment will be bad.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
So I'm a little concerned about bones in babies because if you're living underground, you're not getting sunlight. Sunlight is important for producing vitamin D and vitamin D is important for making calcium and putting that into your bones.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
So if you've got like women who are living underground and you're not taking care to make sure they're getting enough vitamin D and they're turning that into calcium, well, they're trying to maintain their skeleton, which is degrading under less than Earth's gravity and trying to make the skeleton of a baby.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
And so you can imagine that babies would be born with skeletons that are already a little bit more fragile, a little bit less tough than we would like them to be. Oof. And then we don't understand what development under 40% of Earth's gravity is going to do to those bodies.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
And in particular, we don't know if they'll ever be able to return to Earth if they decide that they don't want to stay at Mars. So you might be having babies that are forced to stay in this environment that is hostile. And at some point, we might decide we want to abandon, but they wouldn't be able to.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
So I'm an ecologist by training, and in particular, I'm a parasitologist, so I study parasites. So I'm the kind of person who is even in love with the weird, creepy things you find inside of the more charismatic megafauna. So I was already pretty crazy about this planet and all the cool biodiversity we have here. Me too.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
But reading about, like, if you go to Mars, you'll never be able to walk outside without a spacesuit on and, like, feel the breeze on your skin. I just, I really appreciate this planet that we evolved on and we're so well adapted to. I'm staying here.
Short Wave
Should Humans Live On Mars?
So the vision for a successful space settlement would require that you have essentially families living on the surface of Mars. And that those people are able to have careers that, you know, give them the money that they need to sustain themselves and that they're also able to have children. And those children can successfully grow up and have their own children. That's Kelly Wienersmith.