Kelsey Dion

Hi, I'm Kelsey Dion from the Arcane Library, creator of Shadow Dark, and you're listening to Morse's unofficial tabletop RPG talk.

Hi, I'm Kelsey Dion from the Arcane Library, creator of Shadow Dark, and you're listening to Morse's unofficial tabletop RPG talk.

How am I still late for things? I work from my house, but I'm still late for stuff.

How am I still late for things? I work from my house, but I'm still late for stuff.

I had to wait my turn to merge onto the stairs this morning. It took forever.

I had to wait my turn to merge onto the stairs this morning. It took forever.

That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's the biggest thing. Third-party creators for Shadow Dark, their number one question is, how can I find a template to make it match the brand vibe? And so it's cool that when someone makes a template like this, it's incredibly useful.

That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's the biggest thing. Third-party creators for Shadow Dark, their number one question is, how can I find a template to make it match the brand vibe? And so it's cool that when someone makes a template like this, it's incredibly useful.

I have. No, but I'm okay with you saying things about it, though. I'm going to see it much later.

I have. No, but I'm okay with you saying things about it, though. I'm going to see it much later.

I have done a little bit of a lot of them. So I'm no expert on any particular one, but I've done a little Roll20, a little bit of... I actually really like Owlbear Rodeo, which is... That's my favorite one.

I have done a little bit of a lot of them. So I'm no expert on any particular one, but I've done a little Roll20, a little bit of... I actually really like Owlbear Rodeo, which is... That's my favorite one.

It's really good.

It's really good.

Exactly. That's what I loved about it. I haven't done it in a bit, but I haven't seen a ton of the virtual tabletop Wizards is doing, but I'm allowed to say this now. A long time ago, many years ago, I helped write the adventure they're using for it. So that was before Wizards did some weird stuff. So I haven't yet seen it in action.

Exactly. That's what I loved about it. I haven't done it in a bit, but I haven't seen a ton of the virtual tabletop Wizards is doing, but I'm allowed to say this now. A long time ago, many years ago, I helped write the adventure they're using for it. So that was before Wizards did some weird stuff. So I haven't yet seen it in action.

Yeah, it's been in development a long time. And it's funny because I've never seen the result of that. So I haven't seen it. But you guys did see the virtual tabletop in action?

Yeah, it's been in development a long time. And it's funny because I've never seen the result of that. So I haven't seen it. But you guys did see the virtual tabletop in action?

I should find that.

I should find that.

Wow.

Wow.

I should find that because I'm curious how much of what I wrote made its way into the final result.

I should find that because I'm curious how much of what I wrote made its way into the final result.

Yeah.

Yeah.

yeah yeah and sort of the idea that right like if you there i know some people who only bought digital versions of books and now they're worrying what if they get taken away from me or changed i don't know that's just on principle that's kind of a strange feeling yeah yeah was it 2009 they had a the problem where they just removed all their books from rpg now or something

yeah yeah and sort of the idea that right like if you there i know some people who only bought digital versions of books and now they're worrying what if they get taken away from me or changed i don't know that's just on principle that's kind of a strange feeling yeah yeah was it 2009 they had a the problem where they just removed all their books from rpg now or something

This sounds so cool. Oh, it's very Ready Player One. Like, yeah.

This sounds so cool. Oh, it's very Ready Player One. Like, yeah.

Ooh, a shadow dark is really just any place where there's danger and darkness in a gaming world, in a fantasy gaming world. So it doesn't necessarily just mean, you know, a dungeon or anything. It could be above ground, but as long as it's hard to see in there and there are some things that want to eat you, I would call that the shadow dark.

Ooh, a shadow dark is really just any place where there's danger and darkness in a gaming world, in a fantasy gaming world. So it doesn't necessarily just mean, you know, a dungeon or anything. It could be above ground, but as long as it's hard to see in there and there are some things that want to eat you, I would call that the shadow dark.

I can't believe it.

I can't believe it.

Oh, wow.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, I think it really strips back a lot of the complexity that 5e adds where your characters in Shadow Dark are very simple. They're not really defined by what's on their character sheet so much as what they do and how long they survive in the game and the story that they earn as time goes on. I think that's one big difference.

Yeah, I think it really strips back a lot of the complexity that 5e adds where your characters in Shadow Dark are very simple. They're not really defined by what's on their character sheet so much as what they do and how long they survive in the game and the story that they earn as time goes on. I think that's one big difference.

And a lot of 5e players, I think, are used to playing a very combat-oriented game. Most of the rules in 5e are centered around combat. And there is combat in Shadow Dark, but I think it emphasizes exploration and trying to overcome obstacles without resorting to combat more than 5e does. So that can be one of the most significant outward differences to people who are most used to 5e.

And a lot of 5e players, I think, are used to playing a very combat-oriented game. Most of the rules in 5e are centered around combat. And there is combat in Shadow Dark, but I think it emphasizes exploration and trying to overcome obstacles without resorting to combat more than 5e does. So that can be one of the most significant outward differences to people who are most used to 5e.

Yeah. Thank you so much. It's really centered around the fact that I, as a game master, want to trick my players into thinking I know the whole world and I have everything prepared, even when 90% of the time I don't.

Yeah. Thank you so much. It's really centered around the fact that I, as a game master, want to trick my players into thinking I know the whole world and I have everything prepared, even when 90% of the time I don't.

I designed the book to be a reference where it would be very easy to navigate and then find what you needed and then have generative content baked into so much of what's in the book. Like, tavern generators, name generators, encounter generators, because... Lots of random tables, yeah. Right, right. trying to make topics very easy to grasp and actually easy to remember.

I designed the book to be a reference where it would be very easy to navigate and then find what you needed and then have generative content baked into so much of what's in the book. Like, tavern generators, name generators, encounter generators, because... Lots of random tables, yeah. Right, right. trying to make topics very easy to grasp and actually easy to remember.

So a lot of the design is centered around things being intuitive and all using a unified system so that you don't have to be looking things up all the time. Yeah.

So a lot of the design is centered around things being intuitive and all using a unified system so that you don't have to be looking things up all the time. Yeah.

And you can focus your attention on that generative half of the book where then you can trick your players into thinking you had the whole thing invented when you definitely didn't and you only started preparing five minutes before the game like I do.

And you can focus your attention on that generative half of the book where then you can trick your players into thinking you had the whole thing invented when you definitely didn't and you only started preparing five minutes before the game like I do.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I've never realized until bringing real time into my games, sort of just as like a tip that I was like, oh, you know, we could try to get the players to make a decision faster by incorporating real time into this. And it was something I was doing in games I was running where a lot of people have like a little sand timer or something.

I've never realized until bringing real time into my games, sort of just as like a tip that I was like, oh, you know, we could try to get the players to make a decision faster by incorporating real time into this. And it was something I was doing in games I was running where a lot of people have like a little sand timer or something.

Yeah, exactly. And I was like, well... I wonder if we can center the game around a slightly less intense version of this mechanic where you have some time, but you see the time ticking down. And that's really to just encourage people to be decisive about their gameplay and to not waffle and get buried in the rules arguing.

Yeah, exactly. And I was like, well... I wonder if we can center the game around a slightly less intense version of this mechanic where you have some time, but you see the time ticking down. And that's really to just encourage people to be decisive about their gameplay and to not waffle and get buried in the rules arguing.

Because I don't think at the end of the day, having a fight about how to adjudicate a really specific style of grapple is a lot of fun for most of the people at the table, maybe for like one person at the table, but...

Because I don't think at the end of the day, having a fight about how to adjudicate a really specific style of grapple is a lot of fun for most of the people at the table, maybe for like one person at the table, but...

it's to try to move that kind of thing along and um create some genuine suspense that the players themselves are feeling not just the characters in the game but the players are feeling a little bit of actual pressure on themselves too yeah yeah yeah i think the torch is kind of like the prime example in the game and it's the one you definitely call out in the game but what other sort of like time constraint based sort of things are there that that we might encounter

it's to try to move that kind of thing along and um create some genuine suspense that the players themselves are feeling not just the characters in the game but the players are feeling a little bit of actual pressure on themselves too yeah yeah yeah i think the torch is kind of like the prime example in the game and it's the one you definitely call out in the game but what other sort of like time constraint based sort of things are there that that we might encounter

Yeah, the whole game actually plays in rounds. It plays in, you could say, a loose initiative order. It doesn't have to be super strict, but it's interesting. You'll notice that all spell durations are listed in rounds, not minutes or an hour, really. Sometimes an hour, very, very rarely. And that means an hour of real time.

Yeah, the whole game actually plays in rounds. It plays in, you could say, a loose initiative order. It doesn't have to be super strict, but it's interesting. You'll notice that all spell durations are listed in rounds, not minutes or an hour, really. Sometimes an hour, very, very rarely. And that means an hour of real time.

So when you're playing in rounds, it helps, I think, to give everybody an action that they can do that's sort of equal in potency. It helps you track things like durations so much more easily. And yeah, the whole game is actually, it's funny because people ask, how long is a round? And I'm like, how long does it take you to play a round around the table? That's how long a round is.

So when you're playing in rounds, it helps, I think, to give everybody an action that they can do that's sort of equal in potency. It helps you track things like durations so much more easily. And yeah, the whole game is actually, it's funny because people ask, how long is a round? And I'm like, how long does it take you to play a round around the table? That's how long a round is.

So there's no concrete amount of in-game time pinned to it, which is both kind of strange to get used to, but then I think once people lean into it, they're like, oh, this makes sense. A round is literally how long it takes us to go around the table.

So there's no concrete amount of in-game time pinned to it, which is both kind of strange to get used to, but then I think once people lean into it, they're like, oh, this makes sense. A round is literally how long it takes us to go around the table.

Yeah, and if you fight real slow, I mean, roll your dice as fast as you can if you want to fight fast.

Yeah, and if you fight real slow, I mean, roll your dice as fast as you can if you want to fight fast.

Oh, I hope you try it. I think it's the mechanic that people are most skeptical of, just from what I've seen. They're like, well, I don't think I'm going to like that. And then it also is the mechanic that people have the biggest change of heart on when they actually try it in their game, which makes me happy. So I'm glad people actually give it a shot.

Oh, I hope you try it. I think it's the mechanic that people are most skeptical of, just from what I've seen. They're like, well, I don't think I'm going to like that. And then it also is the mechanic that people have the biggest change of heart on when they actually try it in their game, which makes me happy. So I'm glad people actually give it a shot.

Yes.

Yes.

You have to pass the torch when it's your turn. Just, like, don't drop it on the table and melt your miniatures. Yeah, link about ten candles in.

You have to pass the torch when it's your turn. Just, like, don't drop it on the table and melt your miniatures. Yeah, link about ten candles in.

It'd be very... I think it's really very fun, and it's actually a lot easier to track than marking off a torch each round, like we would do in some classic D&D versions, because I always forget to do that and... You're already tracking enough round by round things to begin with, like random encounters every few rounds, spell durations lasting certain sets of rounds.

It'd be very... I think it's really very fun, and it's actually a lot easier to track than marking off a torch each round, like we would do in some classic D&D versions, because I always forget to do that and... You're already tracking enough round by round things to begin with, like random encounters every few rounds, spell durations lasting certain sets of rounds.

So I like just kind of doing the set it and forget it thing with a torch. Sometimes at conventions, I'll slightly randomize how long the torch is by a minute or two so that canny players can't just be like, it's been exactly an hour and then I'll keep it hidden forever.

So I like just kind of doing the set it and forget it thing with a torch. Sometimes at conventions, I'll slightly randomize how long the torch is by a minute or two so that canny players can't just be like, it's been exactly an hour and then I'll keep it hidden forever.

And players can ask and I'll say, oh, it looks like your torches may be about half burned down, but it adds a lot of tension to fun games like con games that are just one shots and stuff.

And players can ask and I'll say, oh, it looks like your torches may be about half burned down, but it adds a lot of tension to fun games like con games that are just one shots and stuff.

It makes some, Oh no. And it's, it's definitely true that if you're using a slot system, you're moving a little bit away from what's realistic. You're like, why does one glass vial take up an entire slot? And then a torch takes up, but it's, You know, you're sort of mechanizing it, right?

It makes some, Oh no. And it's, it's definitely true that if you're using a slot system, you're moving a little bit away from what's realistic. You're like, why does one glass vial take up an entire slot? And then a torch takes up, but it's, You know, you're sort of mechanizing it, right?

It's like, no, it's much better if it plays faster than if you're trying to calculate the different weights and volumes of all these specific little things because no one's really going to do that because it's annoying. Well, some people do, and they like to, so I can't fault them.

It's like, no, it's much better if it plays faster than if you're trying to calculate the different weights and volumes of all these specific little things because no one's really going to do that because it's annoying. Well, some people do, and they like to, so I can't fault them.

It has to do the kind of thing, too, where I acknowledge that real time is passing in the game, so I have to design the systems around not making it cumbersome for you to, like, calculate things. Otherwise, that would be kind of mean. Like, ha-ha! You have to calculate what you're carrying, but the torch is going down. This is now math class. This is a class.

It has to do the kind of thing, too, where I acknowledge that real time is passing in the game, so I have to design the systems around not making it cumbersome for you to, like, calculate things. Otherwise, that would be kind of mean. Like, ha-ha! You have to calculate what you're carrying, but the torch is going down. This is now math class. This is a class.

Right. And while you're being timed, right?

Right. And while you're being timed, right?

We need to add that in for maximum attention.

We need to add that in for maximum attention.

It was like watching it happen to someone else for a while. I was like, I cannot believe this is happening. And I was like, am I delirious? Because before you launch a Kickstarter, you guys know that it's a little frantic. And you might not have slept that well for a day or two leading into it as you're finalizing everything. And about the second day in, I hadn't slept for maybe four days.

It was like watching it happen to someone else for a while. I was like, I cannot believe this is happening. And I was like, am I delirious? Because before you launch a Kickstarter, you guys know that it's a little frantic. And you might not have slept that well for a day or two leading into it as you're finalizing everything. And about the second day in, I hadn't slept for maybe four days.

I had caught a few hours here and there. And I was like, is this really happening? Or is this me being exhausted? So it was wild. And, you know, I always project how well something's going to do pretty conservatively because I don't like to be disappointed. But I really under projected this time. Really, really. So.

I had caught a few hours here and there. And I was like, is this really happening? Or is this me being exhausted? So it was wild. And, you know, I always project how well something's going to do pretty conservatively because I don't like to be disappointed. But I really under projected this time. Really, really. So.

Well, it brought a lot of attention that was definitely a little bit of a tidal wave. I think it was at a point where I was like, I'm just going to have to deal with all these emails later. And really isolating what needed to be done in the moment and trying to rise to the occasion. Yeah.

Well, it brought a lot of attention that was definitely a little bit of a tidal wave. I think it was at a point where I was like, I'm just going to have to deal with all these emails later. And really isolating what needed to be done in the moment and trying to rise to the occasion. Yeah.

Fortunately, we had set everything up so that our print run could be expanded really easily without overwhelming the printer because we were working with a commercial grade printer. It was just a fact of being like, well, we're not going to need 100 copies. We're going to need 15,000 copies.

Fortunately, we had set everything up so that our print run could be expanded really easily without overwhelming the printer because we were working with a commercial grade printer. It was just a fact of being like, well, we're not going to need 100 copies. We're going to need 15,000 copies.

So they were like, yeah, we can. Yeah, a little bit on the logistics side, there were a few cautious emails sent out asking if things could still be expanded in size more than projected. And everyone I was working with on the logistics side was able to accommodate an increase of that magnitude, which was such a blessing.

So they were like, yeah, we can. Yeah, a little bit on the logistics side, there were a few cautious emails sent out asking if things could still be expanded in size more than projected. And everyone I was working with on the logistics side was able to accommodate an increase of that magnitude, which was such a blessing.

Because if not, we would have had to rework our whole logistics chain entirely, and that would have been scary. Yeah.

Because if not, we would have had to rework our whole logistics chain entirely, and that would have been scary. Yeah.

Right, right. Yeah. So thankfully, you know, going up in volume brings each unit down in cost. So that helped kind of offset the uncertainties, you know, like we're handling.

Right, right. Yeah. So thankfully, you know, going up in volume brings each unit down in cost. So that helped kind of offset the uncertainties, you know, like we're handling.

When you make a little mistake at that volume, it turns into a huge thing down the line. So having those things kind of evening out, ultimately we had enough of a buffer to account for the various mistakes that did happen that could be solved with money. So that was a blessing too.

When you make a little mistake at that volume, it turns into a huge thing down the line. So having those things kind of evening out, ultimately we had enough of a buffer to account for the various mistakes that did happen that could be solved with money. So that was a blessing too.

Right? Did you guys experience this where you're like, there's no way we could have predicted this mistake. It's just going to be a money sink type thing?

Right? Did you guys experience this where you're like, there's no way we could have predicted this mistake. It's just going to be a money sink type thing?

Yeah. Yeah. There's just, there, there's always going to be something that you can't predict, I think, or at least, you know, it would have been difficult to foresee. So that's, I think that, I don't know, building that uncertainty into your budget a little bit can be helpful, although who could have predicted the 2020? Yeah, there was a pandemic and lockdown. Yeah, that one no one saw coming.

Yeah. Yeah. There's just, there, there's always going to be something that you can't predict, I think, or at least, you know, it would have been difficult to foresee. So that's, I think that, I don't know, building that uncertainty into your budget a little bit can be helpful, although who could have predicted the 2020? Yeah, there was a pandemic and lockdown. Yeah, that one no one saw coming.

I mean, I'm notoriously bad at guessing because I thought my Kickstarter was going to do 10,000, so... But I would say I'm more on Jess's side. I want to overshoot it because it's like the price is right where we should have the price is right rules where if you go over your, or if you are like guessing 12,000, but it's 12,001, then you're disqualified. So whoever's above that wins.

I mean, I'm notoriously bad at guessing because I thought my Kickstarter was going to do 10,000, so... But I would say I'm more on Jess's side. I want to overshoot it because it's like the price is right where we should have the price is right rules where if you go over your, or if you are like guessing 12,000, but it's 12,001, then you're disqualified. So whoever's above that wins.

add two or three months to it just because I'm usually you'll end up doing it on that time just because stuff happens oh my gosh Jess I wish I had that advice earlier I wish I'd had that because that's exactly just about the amount of time we needed to extend certain things was like three to four months past what I had initially guessed so that's that's a very insightful piece of advice right there

add two or three months to it just because I'm usually you'll end up doing it on that time just because stuff happens oh my gosh Jess I wish I had that advice earlier I wish I'd had that because that's exactly just about the amount of time we needed to extend certain things was like three to four months past what I had initially guessed so that's that's a very insightful piece of advice right there

I was going to move.

I was going to move.

I really like it.

I really like it.

I'm glad that that that particular section, you know, resonated with you, because that's one of the few places where I think that I inserted a bit more of my personal philosophy. The rest of the book tries to be a bit more, you know, general use and a little bit more broad scope. But this was a very specific part of the book. So I'm really glad that you liked it. And

I'm glad that that that particular section, you know, resonated with you, because that's one of the few places where I think that I inserted a bit more of my personal philosophy. The rest of the book tries to be a bit more, you know, general use and a little bit more broad scope. But this was a very specific part of the book. So I'm really glad that you liked it. And

I'm going to say 13,000.

I'm going to say 13,000.

It's a discussion on sort of the unspoken agreement between the players and like why we're playing and that the purpose of that is for positive reasons and that things that are going to bring that vibe down are really against the implicit agreement that you have sitting at the table, which is to have fun playing a game.

It's a discussion on sort of the unspoken agreement between the players and like why we're playing and that the purpose of that is for positive reasons and that things that are going to bring that vibe down are really against the implicit agreement that you have sitting at the table, which is to have fun playing a game.

I think it's strange, but sometimes people do lose sight of that when they're playing and they forget that this is a cooperative, fun, social thing. And that's the implicit agreement when everybody sits down. And so when you can be aware of it and acknowledge it, it kind of helps you stay on track with that, I think.

I think it's strange, but sometimes people do lose sight of that when they're playing and they forget that this is a cooperative, fun, social thing. And that's the implicit agreement when everybody sits down. And so when you can be aware of it and acknowledge it, it kind of helps you stay on track with that, I think.

That's 100% what it is.

That's 100% what it is.

It has to sound more esoteric.

It has to sound more esoteric.

I mean...

I mean...

Good, thank you.

Good, thank you.

I hope that's the case with, especially, I think especially in the OSR, there might be the misconception that the game master is out to get you more than in other editions of the game, and perhaps that's because characters are more fragile, and maybe there's this misconception that the game master... That's how people kind of take a pride of being a killer DM or something like that, don't they?

I hope that's the case with, especially, I think especially in the OSR, there might be the misconception that the game master is out to get you more than in other editions of the game, and perhaps that's because characters are more fragile, and maybe there's this misconception that the game master... That's how people kind of take a pride of being a killer DM or something like that, don't they?

some kind of misconception about that.

some kind of misconception about that.

You have all the power. Yeah, it's Rock's fault. Come on, everybody knows that one. So yeah, it's strange that there's more nuance to really the best way for a character to die is when it's the player's fault. So that's what you're going for. And I think sometimes people miss that nuance.

You have all the power. Yeah, it's Rock's fault. Come on, everybody knows that one. So yeah, it's strange that there's more nuance to really the best way for a character to die is when it's the player's fault. So that's what you're going for. And I think sometimes people miss that nuance.

Yeah, I think at the end of the day, I made a game that I wanted to play, and I think that it was a very... Maybe just by fortune or by the read that I have on the community and the industry, it just lined up with what a lot of people wanted out of a sort of workhorse system that was...

Yeah, I think at the end of the day, I made a game that I wanted to play, and I think that it was a very... Maybe just by fortune or by the read that I have on the community and the industry, it just lined up with what a lot of people wanted out of a sort of workhorse system that was...

that was an OSR game, because I think it filled a specific little niche that hadn't really been successfully filled yet about making an OSR game, but that's just so much more approachable than the OSR kind of has a reputation for. whether or not that's deserved. And so that, you know, that's, that's ultimately, I think I just kind of made the game that people in that moment wanted.

that was an OSR game, because I think it filled a specific little niche that hadn't really been successfully filled yet about making an OSR game, but that's just so much more approachable than the OSR kind of has a reputation for. whether or not that's deserved. And so that, you know, that's, that's ultimately, I think I just kind of made the game that people in that moment wanted.

And yeah, that's maybe why it did well.

And yeah, that's maybe why it did well.

They're just emboldened after that. Yeah. To do it again. I had to work that. It's too classic, like sort of sword and sorcery. Like every adventure story starts with the characters down on their luck after having spent their fortunes. And so that was a thing that I really wanted to emphasize because it's a good encouragement to go back out and adventure when you're poor.

They're just emboldened after that. Yeah. To do it again. I had to work that. It's too classic, like sort of sword and sorcery. Like every adventure story starts with the characters down on their luck after having spent their fortunes. And so that was a thing that I really wanted to emphasize because it's a good encouragement to go back out and adventure when you're poor.

Exactly. We spent it all. We need more.

Exactly. We spent it all. We need more.

In Wales, we talked about this.

In Wales, we talked about this.

I don't trust myself in there. Yep, I would fall down a crevasse and be like, that's it, you know?

I don't trust myself in there. Yep, I would fall down a crevasse and be like, that's it, you know?

Oh, a little bit. It's, there's a lot of pulp movies and Indiana Jones stuff that works its way into my subconscious. So sometimes I don't know, but the, the Kytherian mechanism, there's a, there's a old mechanism they found.

Oh, a little bit. It's, there's a lot of pulp movies and Indiana Jones stuff that works its way into my subconscious. So sometimes I don't know, but the, the Kytherian mechanism, there's a, there's a old mechanism they found.

Which was like an old computer and old, you know, and so the, the first calculating device at that scale. So I, I thought that was so cool and I wanted to make reference to that too. So, yeah.

Which was like an old computer and old, you know, and so the, the first calculating device at that scale. So I, I thought that was so cool and I wanted to make reference to that too. So, yeah.

Yeah, yes. Oh, absolutely. It's funny because the book Shadow Dark is built on my game world, but I try to make the setting very implied so that it's loose for people to use however they want, really. You know, you could import it into other settings pretty easily, but it's all built up out of my own game world. So those are the deities from my home game and those are...

Yeah, yes. Oh, absolutely. It's funny because the book Shadow Dark is built on my game world, but I try to make the setting very implied so that it's loose for people to use however they want, really. You know, you could import it into other settings pretty easily, but it's all built up out of my own game world. So those are the deities from my home game and those are...

you know, some, some of a lot of the things referenced in there. So there are even some little jokes in there that are related to events that have happened in games that I've played in that I think are really only I know.

you know, some, some of a lot of the things referenced in there. So there are even some little jokes in there that are related to events that have happened in games that I've played in that I think are really only I know.

So I guess it's only funny to me, but like there's, there's a roll table in there that mentions this blue chicken, um, named Bimbles and that blue chicken has actually appeared in both games and supplements across a bunch of my other friends who were, who were, creators of their own games and systems.

So I guess it's only funny to me, but like there's, there's a roll table in there that mentions this blue chicken, um, named Bimbles and that blue chicken has actually appeared in both games and supplements across a bunch of my other friends who were, who were, creators of their own games and systems.

So like Hank Renferno from Runehammer Games, he wrote the game Index Card RPG and Crown and Skull. Bimbles appears in his book and then Bimbles appears in another book that has nothing to do with either of our two games. So he's a common thread throughout the multiverse and people might find him where they don't expect him.

So like Hank Renferno from Runehammer Games, he wrote the game Index Card RPG and Crown and Skull. Bimbles appears in his book and then Bimbles appears in another book that has nothing to do with either of our two games. So he's a common thread throughout the multiverse and people might find him where they don't expect him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I'm so glad to hear that. And I do think that there's some classic complexities in magic and D&D style magic, like spell slots and spells known and spells per day. And I understand why D&D as a brand has kept some of those things in throughout most editions, because it's a big touchstone of D&D. It's a big kind of classic element. But

Yeah. Well, I'm so glad to hear that. And I do think that there's some classic complexities in magic and D&D style magic, like spell slots and spells known and spells per day. And I understand why D&D as a brand has kept some of those things in throughout most editions, because it's a big touchstone of D&D. It's a big kind of classic element. But

I've always found spell slots and spells per day and spells known to be kind of a confusing thing. And so Shadow Dark just kind of pulled that all out and was like, you know these spells and you can cast them. And I think that that makes spell casting more approachable at the outset, just from that alone. So making the spells a little more simple too, just a little bit more.

I've always found spell slots and spells per day and spells known to be kind of a confusing thing. And so Shadow Dark just kind of pulled that all out and was like, you know these spells and you can cast them. And I think that that makes spell casting more approachable at the outset, just from that alone. So making the spells a little more simple too, just a little bit more.

Thank you. Gosh, it's funny. It's kind of trusting that the game master is not a robot, but rather someone who's going to interpret the results of spells. So there is a little bit of interpretation needed in some of the spells based on the situation. And I think that's the way it was in the original versions too.

Thank you. Gosh, it's funny. It's kind of trusting that the game master is not a robot, but rather someone who's going to interpret the results of spells. So there is a little bit of interpretation needed in some of the spells based on the situation. And I think that's the way it was in the original versions too.

And so I wanted to bring that sentiment back where we're trusting the game master and the players to use a spell in a way that's going to make sense and that we're going to maybe... rule it somewhat differently depending on the situation.

And so I wanted to bring that sentiment back where we're trusting the game master and the players to use a spell in a way that's going to make sense and that we're going to maybe... rule it somewhat differently depending on the situation.

Like if you're trying to cast Fireball into a Water Elemental, I think that it goes without saying that that Water Elemental is probably gonna have a little bit more ability to resist the spell. And so it's not all baked in. It's funny, my friend pointed this out to me, the Polymorph spell in Shadow Dark is one of the wordiest spells.

Like if you're trying to cast Fireball into a Water Elemental, I think that it goes without saying that that Water Elemental is probably gonna have a little bit more ability to resist the spell. And so it's not all baked in. It's funny, my friend pointed this out to me, the Polymorph spell in Shadow Dark is one of the wordiest spells.

It still has fewer words in it than Burning Hands from fifth edition. So I was like, wow, that's pretty. It was just cutting out all the stuff that I felt was actually kind of obvious or would need to be interpreted in the moment. And hopefully that was successful. I guess we'll see.

It still has fewer words in it than Burning Hands from fifth edition. So I was like, wow, that's pretty. It was just cutting out all the stuff that I felt was actually kind of obvious or would need to be interpreted in the moment. And hopefully that was successful. I guess we'll see.

Right, right. You don't have to define every corner case in every spell. I think that. You're going to let the people playing and running the game use their knowledge of fantasy and real world to sort of make rulings as needed when needed. Yeah.

Right, right. You don't have to define every corner case in every spell. I think that. You're going to let the people playing and running the game use their knowledge of fantasy and real world to sort of make rulings as needed when needed. Yeah.

Thank you, ethereal bandersnatch.

Thank you, ethereal bandersnatch.

Thank you. Yeah. Well, I have to give credit too to other games and other people who have sort of developed these concepts out throughout the last 20 years. Like Dungeon Crawl Classics has a really interesting and certainly more complex but comparable spellcasting system to Shadow Dark.

Thank you. Yeah. Well, I have to give credit too to other games and other people who have sort of developed these concepts out throughout the last 20 years. Like Dungeon Crawl Classics has a really interesting and certainly more complex but comparable spellcasting system to Shadow Dark.

Yeah, I think some of their ideas were very pioneering and the design space grabbed onto those and took off with it and another 15 years have gone by of crunching these ideas around and discussing them. I think what I've written has been born out of that whole primordial soup of ideas that have come about in the last 15 years.

Yeah, I think some of their ideas were very pioneering and the design space grabbed onto those and took off with it and another 15 years have gone by of crunching these ideas around and discussing them. I think what I've written has been born out of that whole primordial soup of ideas that have come about in the last 15 years.

That's very fair and true. I think that's an element that's sort of pulled from the OSR where it's like, well, player skill is really considered a large element in the gameplay. And I wanted to be true to that given that we're making an OSR-style game, but it can be difficult. Like, for example, people who don't feel comfortable role-playing like a...

That's very fair and true. I think that's an element that's sort of pulled from the OSR where it's like, well, player skill is really considered a large element in the gameplay. And I wanted to be true to that given that we're making an OSR-style game, but it can be difficult. Like, for example, people who don't feel comfortable role-playing like a...

charisma based situation where they're trying to persuade somebody to do something there are people who genuinely don't feel comfortable doing that and for them having like a charisma bonus or a charisma skill that they can roll on is great because then they can say my character is good at this I'm going to let my character handle it and in old school games and in Shadow Dark there's a little bit more like well what do you say to him you know and it's not right for everybody so that's a good thing to point it out yeah and

charisma based situation where they're trying to persuade somebody to do something there are people who genuinely don't feel comfortable doing that and for them having like a charisma bonus or a charisma skill that they can roll on is great because then they can say my character is good at this I'm going to let my character handle it and in old school games and in Shadow Dark there's a little bit more like well what do you say to him you know and it's not right for everybody so that's a good thing to point it out yeah and

I'd say that's fair because a longer backstory for a character is probably not really going to come into play. Your backstory is what you do in your early levels if you survive them. And then you gain your character's backstory in those moments. Whereas in a more heroic style game, your character is a little bit more capable from the start. So you come in...

I'd say that's fair because a longer backstory for a character is probably not really going to come into play. Your backstory is what you do in your early levels if you survive them. And then you gain your character's backstory in those moments. Whereas in a more heroic style game, your character is a little bit more capable from the start. So you come in...

I, you know, I hadn't officially prepared a speech, not because I didn't take it seriously, but because it was, again, a little bit of a superstition thing for me where I was like, well, if I prepare this whole big speech and then I don't win anything, I'll feel kind of silly.

I, you know, I hadn't officially prepared a speech, not because I didn't take it seriously, but because it was, again, a little bit of a superstition thing for me where I was like, well, if I prepare this whole big speech and then I don't win anything, I'll feel kind of silly.

And then, and I really genuinely, seeing what I was up against, I was like, oh, there's, you know, we'll be lucky if we win one, right? And so it's funny because I got to really say everything I wanted to say that I would have put into a speech before. sort of parsed out across a couple different times on stage, which was really special. So I did not expect to win four at all. Maybe just one.

And then, and I really genuinely, seeing what I was up against, I was like, oh, there's, you know, we'll be lucky if we win one, right? And so it's funny because I got to really say everything I wanted to say that I would have put into a speech before. sort of parsed out across a couple different times on stage, which was really special. So I did not expect to win four at all. Maybe just one.

And definitely not something like Best Rules, for example, where we were up against some incredibly big contenders. That was shocking and humbling. And I had a little bit of survivor's guilt where I was like, I'm sorry, Pathfinder. I'm sorry this happened. But it was very, very vindicating and humbling and exciting, too.

And definitely not something like Best Rules, for example, where we were up against some incredibly big contenders. That was shocking and humbling. And I had a little bit of survivor's guilt where I was like, I'm sorry, Pathfinder. I'm sorry this happened. But it was very, very vindicating and humbling and exciting, too.

I did not realize how many people were in the audience because I was sitting more towards the front. And I got there a little early. So, you know, I was facing forward and then I turned around to look out at the stage and I was like, there are people all the way to the back.

I did not realize how many people were in the audience because I was sitting more towards the front. And I got there a little early. So, you know, I was facing forward and then I turned around to look out at the stage and I was like, there are people all the way to the back.

this is crazy so thank goodness I'm a dungeon master because I had to go into dungeon master mode and just be like I you know instead of totally blanking out and having nothing to say you know I think being a game master gives you the ability to speak through uncertainty so that's what I ended up doing and yeah it was not something I thought I would experience once let alone four times in one night yeah

this is crazy so thank goodness I'm a dungeon master because I had to go into dungeon master mode and just be like I you know instead of totally blanking out and having nothing to say you know I think being a game master gives you the ability to speak through uncertainty so that's what I ended up doing and yeah it was not something I thought I would experience once let alone four times in one night yeah

Well, I'm writing more Shadow Dark stuff because now I get to. I get to make this my focus for my career. So I'm writing some, there's some zines for the game that I write called Curse Scroll zines and they're each.

Well, I'm writing more Shadow Dark stuff because now I get to. I get to make this my focus for my career. So I'm writing some, there's some zines for the game that I write called Curse Scroll zines and they're each.

I love writing. I think they're my favorite thing to write because they're micro settings and I get to put all the really concrete world building into them that I left out of the core rules to make the core rules usable chameleon style across multiple universes. So I'm writing three more curse scrolls right now. And I think we're going to try to kickstart them in March.

I love writing. I think they're my favorite thing to write because they're micro settings and I get to put all the really concrete world building into them that I left out of the core rules to make the core rules usable chameleon style across multiple universes. So I'm writing three more curse scrolls right now. And I think we're going to try to kickstart them in March.

So we're going to do some fancy fun stuff. And that's currently what I'm working on. It takes a little while to write each one. So, you know, deadlines. I'm going to make these deadlines.

So we're going to do some fancy fun stuff. And that's currently what I'm working on. It takes a little while to write each one. So, you know, deadlines. I'm going to make these deadlines.

Oh, who knows? I think it's... Pressure, pressure. Right, the pressure. Because corals always do so well. And then supplements are sort of... I don't think they're expected to do that well, so if we did anywhere close to how the Shadow Dark main Kickstarter did, I would be floored. But I've been surprised a lot the last year, so you never know.

Oh, who knows? I think it's... Pressure, pressure. Right, the pressure. Because corals always do so well. And then supplements are sort of... I don't think they're expected to do that well, so if we did anywhere close to how the Shadow Dark main Kickstarter did, I would be floored. But I've been surprised a lot the last year, so you never know.

Yeah, probably since maybe like 2018 is when I really started to think I wanted to write a system. I commissioned the first piece of art for the game in like 2018. Oh, okay. And it's actually the piece that's on the cover.

Yeah, probably since maybe like 2018 is when I really started to think I wanted to write a system. I commissioned the first piece of art for the game in like 2018. Oh, okay. And it's actually the piece that's on the cover.

It's like this beholder that's got all this dripping metal-looking feature.

It's like this beholder that's got all this dripping metal-looking feature.

Right, the Ten-Eyed Oracle. Exactly. There's just the one in the game, so he's a unique character. I commissioned that piece of art and then stared at it for two years while the rest of the game was sort of formulating. And it's funny, it's almost like I feel like having that piece of art made me be like, I can't put this incredible piece of art to waste. I have to really take it seriously.

Right, the Ten-Eyed Oracle. Exactly. There's just the one in the game, so he's a unique character. I commissioned that piece of art and then stared at it for two years while the rest of the game was sort of formulating. And it's funny, it's almost like I feel like having that piece of art made me be like, I can't put this incredible piece of art to waste. I have to really take it seriously.

Because the artist Lucas Cort, he took it seriously. He did this incredible piece. And I was like, I have to write something that can rise to the occasion of this just stunning piece of art he did. So I started writing it in my mind then and then put it to paper starting in about 2019.

Because the artist Lucas Cort, he took it seriously. He did this incredible piece. And I was like, I have to write something that can rise to the occasion of this just stunning piece of art he did. So I started writing it in my mind then and then put it to paper starting in about 2019.

It's very not the sort of silly beholder that I think has become the... Well, not to say that they're silly, but the first beholder ever drawn was a floating ball with silly eyes coming out of it. Right, and we have to admit that they're kind of funny.

It's very not the sort of silly beholder that I think has become the... Well, not to say that they're silly, but the first beholder ever drawn was a floating ball with silly eyes coming out of it. Right, and we have to admit that they're kind of funny.

Right, it's the Geiger beholder. And this is a weird thing about that piece of art. Lucas, he's a renowned death metal artist, which kind of explains his vibe. But if you squint, if you kind of blur your eyes a little bit, that central eye on the beholder is actually the Arcane Library's logo, which is an explanation, a hint in world at what that logo even means. So it's all very meta.

Right, it's the Geiger beholder. And this is a weird thing about that piece of art. Lucas, he's a renowned death metal artist, which kind of explains his vibe. But if you squint, if you kind of blur your eyes a little bit, that central eye on the beholder is actually the Arcane Library's logo, which is an explanation, a hint in world at what that logo even means. So it's all very meta.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I did, I did, which is funny. It's actually pretty simple. The layout is pretty straightforward, and that was the big emphasis. I love Morkborg too, but I don't think that their design goal was for it to be easy to read. I think that would be fair to say, and mine was. I wanted to have a very stark and easy to read thing.

I did, I did, which is funny. It's actually pretty simple. The layout is pretty straightforward, and that was the big emphasis. I love Morkborg too, but I don't think that their design goal was for it to be easy to read. I think that would be fair to say, and mine was. I wanted to have a very stark and easy to read thing.

especially because when your eye is moving down a page, you need to catch information immediately. You get really one chance to catch what you're scanning for in the moment. And so I was trying to make that the emphasis while still being able to convey this black and white look, which is very old school. It's a nod to the artists that were the foundation of the game.

especially because when your eye is moving down a page, you need to catch information immediately. You get really one chance to catch what you're scanning for in the moment. And so I was trying to make that the emphasis while still being able to convey this black and white look, which is very old school. It's a nod to the artists that were the foundation of the game.

It's really because I couldn't have managed any more than what we did. Right?

It's really because I couldn't have managed any more than what we did. Right?

And I wanted to, even the paper choice. I did uncoated paper in the book because that was how the original D&D books were. And that's why you get cool marginalia from like nine-year-olds in the 70s writing their notes. And I wanted to make that possible. So a lot of the quality type decisions of the book were about evoking an old feeling book.

And I wanted to, even the paper choice. I did uncoated paper in the book because that was how the original D&D books were. And that's why you get cool marginalia from like nine-year-olds in the 70s writing their notes. And I wanted to make that possible. So a lot of the quality type decisions of the book were about evoking an old feeling book.

And the art as well. And then the writing and the text was all about being like, you have to be able to use this on the fly. That was the big emphasis.

And the art as well. And then the writing and the text was all about being like, you have to be able to use this on the fly. That was the big emphasis.

It was lovely to meet you all, too. I'm so glad I got to come on this show and that you guys were willing to bring me on and suffer my shenanigans.

It was lovely to meet you all, too. I'm so glad I got to come on this show and that you guys were willing to bring me on and suffer my shenanigans.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, that's just a good old bottom of the chest rah sound. That's how I roll. You can add some color to it, you know, depending on the volume. Amazing.

You know, that's just a good old bottom of the chest rah sound. That's how I roll. You can add some color to it, you know, depending on the volume. Amazing.

It's a very insightful quote from the Tarrasque there. Very deep.

It's a very insightful quote from the Tarrasque there. Very deep.

I would think so.

I would think so.

No, no, no.

No, no, no.

They are cute. I have to give them that, but...

They are cute. I have to give them that, but...

This one is new to me, actually, so I might need the primer. But so they were changing their policy, and there was a rebellion.

This one is new to me, actually, so I might need the primer. But so they were changing their policy, and there was a rebellion.

They do sound like they're listening to their community. I mean, that's the one big difference right off the bat is they're inviting feedback and they're actually going to make changes based on that, it seems. So it's already different from how the OGL was. Yeah, exactly.

They do sound like they're listening to their community. I mean, that's the one big difference right off the bat is they're inviting feedback and they're actually going to make changes based on that, it seems. So it's already different from how the OGL was. Yeah, exactly.

I've always wondered, is there, so I wonder if they actually have a writing team that's comparable in size to that of Wizards of the Coast, because I think it's, it has to be less than a dozen people at Wizards.

I've always wondered, is there, so I wonder if they actually have a writing team that's comparable in size to that of Wizards of the Coast, because I think it's, it has to be less than a dozen people at Wizards.

Wow.

Wow.

Very thin.

Very thin.

Wow, that's going to save them money on renting a Seattle-based corporate space, which I can't even imagine how much that must cost.

Wow, that's going to save them money on renting a Seattle-based corporate space, which I can't even imagine how much that must cost.

Hi, I'm Kelsey Dion from the Arcane Library, creator of Shadow Dark, and you're listening to Morse's unofficial tabletop RPG talk.

Hi, I'm Kelsey Dion from the Arcane Library, creator of Shadow Dark, and you're listening to Morse's unofficial tabletop RPG talk.