Kevin Tawil

It was Kevin Lander and Andrews Klein behind them.

So it was sort of,

An interesting negotiation.

But at the end of the day, we had the, what I call like the Irv factor in the sense of when we said no to something, they knew it wasn't us and they weren't really negotiating with us.

They knew it was coming from Irv and we understand what that means.

And no meant no.

No meant no.

And they came in with a term sheet that had a high price, but it had a number of conditions to include.

They wanted control over major operating decisions to include the budget and key hires.

They want to take the company public, registration rights, and they wanted a preference and they want a couple of other items.

getting into too much detail.

Basically, we came back at the advice of Irv and Bill and just said no to all of them.

The insight for them, which again, Jim and I in the classroom being students, was TA's in the business of investing in great companies.

If we have confidence in the company and we don't need the capital because it's all secondary, then

We've got all the power.

And while we ultimately acceded to some minor rights to TA, at the end of the day, they basically come in with the same security.

It's all common.

And I think happily so in the end.

It was absolutely common to both be preferred and have a coupon.

And they got neither of those.