Kurt Mackey

Yep.

Yep.

Yeah. You know, I mean, I was probably last time I was on the show with Adam, I was probably dissing that metric, right? Like PR group, but PR strategy.

Yeah. You know, I mean, I was probably last time I was on the show with Adam, I was probably dissing that metric, right? Like PR group, but PR strategy.

I'm a politician, right? You know, I flip flop on the issues. Yeah.

I'm a politician, right? You know, I flip flop on the issues. Yeah.

Yeah. But no. So it's been, it's been a journey for, I mean, just for me personally on this topic, because, um, You know, the whole reason I actually got into spending six, seven years on this whole problem space was because I felt like metrics like diffs per engineer were reductive and not correct and not helpful. All right.

Yeah. But no. So it's been, it's been a journey for, I mean, just for me personally on this topic, because, um, You know, the whole reason I actually got into spending six, seven years on this whole problem space was because I felt like metrics like diffs per engineer were reductive and not correct and not helpful. All right.

But one of the things that the core four optimizes for is so we work with a lot of technical leaders, engineering leaders and engineers. As we were talking about earlier, one of their big challenges is talking about rationalizing investments in developer productivity in a way that the CEO and CFO are going to agree to.

But one of the things that the core four optimizes for is so we work with a lot of technical leaders, engineering leaders and engineers. As we were talking about earlier, one of their big challenges is talking about rationalizing investments in developer productivity in a way that the CEO and CFO are going to agree to.

And to do that, you need a shared definition of productivity that your CEO and CFO agree with. And to achieve that, I've found that you do need some type of output measure. We're not at a point in human evolution yet where most CEOs and CFOs are down with this idea that developer experience indexes is the one metric that matters for the maturity or effectiveness of the organization.

And to do that, you need a shared definition of productivity that your CEO and CFO agree with. And to achieve that, I've found that you do need some type of output measure. We're not at a point in human evolution yet where most CEOs and CFOs are down with this idea that developer experience indexes is the one metric that matters for the maturity or effectiveness of the organization.

A lot of CFOs and CEOs still think, I mean, there's Fortune 550 companies still measuring lines of code, benchmarking that, right? So we're still at a point in human state of the art around software engineering where output measures need to be a part of that conversation. It needs to be part of the way you're framing developer experience and developer productivity.

A lot of CFOs and CEOs still think, I mean, there's Fortune 550 companies still measuring lines of code, benchmarking that, right? So we're still at a point in human state of the art around software engineering where output measures need to be a part of that conversation. It needs to be part of the way you're framing developer experience and developer productivity.

If you want the people you're pitching this to, to actually understand fund it and believe it and buy in. So there's a marketability optimization here. That's one of the reasons PR is for engineers in here. But the other reason is we have come around to talking with a lot of companies like Uber, Microsoft, top tech companies where they use this metric as an input. It's not the sole metric, right?

If you want the people you're pitching this to, to actually understand fund it and believe it and buy in. So there's a marketability optimization here. That's one of the reasons PR is for engineers in here. But the other reason is we have come around to talking with a lot of companies like Uber, Microsoft, top tech companies where they use this metric as an input. It's not the sole metric, right?

They're not performance valuing engineers based on this metric, but in aggregate, they are looking at this metric as an input to understanding how developer productivity is trending and compares to other organizations. And it's not useless, right? It is a useful indicator in aggregate.

They're not performance valuing engineers based on this metric, but in aggregate, they are looking at this metric as an input to understanding how developer productivity is trending and compares to other organizations. And it's not useless, right? It is a useful indicator in aggregate.

And that's why in the framework in the core four, we there's an asterisk and it says not to measure this at the individual level. So this is only to be looked at at a aggregate team group organization level and benchmark that way. And we've we've found it more useful than not.

And that's why in the framework in the core four, we there's an asterisk and it says not to measure this at the individual level. So this is only to be looked at at a aggregate team group organization level and benchmark that way. And we've we've found it more useful than not.