Larry Sanger

something that you're not supposed to, basically.

Yes, there are.

It's, again, really, really difficult to get into.

I can sort of

give you the beginning of the of the explanation but like it would probably take an hour to talk through the whole thing please um imagine a world in which human beings that are free in this sense um are able to uh well um

Well, let's put it this way.

Let's suppose their bodies never deteriorate.

They are essentially demigods or gods, whatever.

So the problems are solved.

There is no pain and there is no death.

So if there's no death...

If there is also, you know, reproduction, then there's gonna be a, the universe is gonna be filled up through the laws of multiplication.

What are they called?

Whatever.

So just the doubling of everything means that the universe is gonna be filled up.

And well, if there is not a,

succession of beings, essentially, then how can there be any development?

Especially if we're talking about free development.

This seems to require death, actually.

And then the idea that there would have to be pain, that falls out from the fact that, well, if there's going to be death, there has to be some indicators that you're in danger of dying.