Leila Fadel

With me now is reporter Kate Bartlett, who's in Johannesburg. Good morning, Kate. Good morning. Okay, so get us up to speed. What brought this meeting about?

With me now is reporter Kate Bartlett, who's in Johannesburg. Good morning, Kate. Good morning. Okay, so get us up to speed. What brought this meeting about?

So how will Ramaphosa approach the meeting?

So how will Ramaphosa approach the meeting?

So how will Ramaphosa approach the meeting?

And what do ordinary South Africans think about all this?

And what do ordinary South Africans think about all this?

And what do ordinary South Africans think about all this?

That's reporter Kate Bartlett in Johannesburg. Thank you, Kate. Thank you.

That's reporter Kate Bartlett in Johannesburg. Thank you, Kate. Thank you.

That's reporter Kate Bartlett in Johannesburg. Thank you, Kate. Thank you.

But his creation, the ad hoc Department of Government Efficiency, keeps finding new parts of the federal government to try to shrink. A new analysis by NPR found at least 40 agencies and groups

But his creation, the ad hoc Department of Government Efficiency, keeps finding new parts of the federal government to try to shrink. A new analysis by NPR found at least 40 agencies and groups

But his creation, the ad hoc Department of Government Efficiency, keeps finding new parts of the federal government to try to shrink. A new analysis by NPR found at least 40 agencies and groups

And that's Up First for Wednesday, May 21st. I'm Leila Folden.

And that's Up First for Wednesday, May 21st. I'm Leila Folden.

And that's Up First for Wednesday, May 21st. I'm Leila Folden.

Today's episode of Up First was edited by Rylan Barton, Kevin Drew, Brett Neely, Tara Neal, Allie Schweitzer, and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Ziad Butch, Nia Dumas, and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Nisha Hynas, and our technical director is David Greenberg. Join us again tomorrow.

Today's episode of Up First was edited by Rylan Barton, Kevin Drew, Brett Neely, Tara Neal, Allie Schweitzer, and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Ziad Butch, Nia Dumas, and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Nisha Hynas, and our technical director is David Greenberg. Join us again tomorrow.

Today's episode of Up First was edited by Rylan Barton, Kevin Drew, Brett Neely, Tara Neal, Allie Schweitzer, and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Ziad Butch, Nia Dumas, and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Nisha Hynas, and our technical director is David Greenberg. Join us again tomorrow.